37 - Unwrapping 2023

Speaker 3: 0:31

Well, hello world, merry Christmas.

Speaker 2: 0:34

Merry, merry Christmas. We are releasing this episode a day or two after Christmas. Might be pre-recorded, so we don't know where we're at in. Time and time is relative. This is what we're talking about today. Is black holes, space earthworms? No. What are those things called Wormholes? Interstellar? No, no.

Speaker 3: 1:02

You drive the bus, slim, I'm just yelling stuff out the window.

Speaker 2: 1:07

This is our approach to theology and pieces. Welcome to Theology of Pieces, where we hope to rebuild your theology that the church, the world or somebody has shattered to pieces, and we are your host, slim and Malcolm, and today we thought it would be fun, as the year winds down, to look back at 2023, what a year it was and, like Spotify, unwrap this year's best and look back. Did you do the Speaking?

Speaker 3: 1:34

of which, yes, yeah, on your Spotify unwrapped. What are your genres?

Speaker 2: 1:41

Am I able to go back and look at this? This is not great to do live right now.

Speaker 3: 1:49

Hold on, dear listener, Give us about five minutes. Yeah, actually, yeah, I don't know I mean. So like I took a screenshot of mine.

Speaker 2: 1:57

Well, hold on to it. We'll talk about those.

Speaker 3: 2:00

All right, yeah, only if you can find it. If you can't find it, it's fine, it's fine.

Speaker 2: 2:05

And so that I wanted to look back at this past year. This has been a fun year. This is our first year of doing a podcast. This is episode 38, something like that Look at us and you know, I didn't know if we'd make it past episode three. I didn't know if our wives would have us go past episode three or our church, or whatever. What did we do?

Speaker 3: 2:34

in episode three.

Speaker 2: 2:36

Nothing bad, I just bet like. I didn't know how long this would go. The original idea behind this, because this was not a thing a year ago. It's true. This was an idea that mainly I had, and you were like mostly you. Are we sure we want to do this?

Speaker 2: 2:53

Because we're trying to think as pastors of a church here locally, but we also want to speak to people outside of Waco. How do we, how can we best disciple our church? And we don't want to just throw stuff out the window like what you joked, just shouting things out the window. We don't want to just post online, even though those are helpful ways to communicate. How best can we disciple people? And I think, yes, I think in person is the best form of discipleship One-on-one. That's what a disciple is, right. It's someone who is being taught, it's a student learning, and so how do you get that and how can you do that in a most effective way? I think the most effective way is going to be one-on-one with folks. But, as someone who has a position in a church, how do we think about that? How do we disciple our church and disciple others? And you know what can we do. You could do Sunday schools.

Speaker 2: 3:53

We're kind of limited in our space here and so trying to creatively find some solutions, and this podcast was one-on-one idea about how to do that. And so really it's about kind of disciple folks who, as this podcast is titled, theology and Pieces who feel like your theology has been shattered and shredded, and so we want to start there, but really the hope and the thrust and goal of this is to build back, and so it's not just to deconstruct, but it's to reconstruct back. What would that look like? And so, kind of just asking all of the questions, everything is on the table. So it's one of the things I love for us to do is to just, you know, have no question is a bad question. Let's let truth speak out. And so we've covered some heavy and light topics. I'm just looking back at our list here. This past year, we've talked about America's original sin women in leadership. When Christ will come back, which we predicted to be in the year of 2023. We still got some time. We'll see what happens. We talked about defunding the police. We did.

Speaker 2: 5:14

Heaven and Hell. Racial capitalism.

Speaker 3: 5:17

With Dr Tran, I think that was probably our that's our, I think our most listened to episode.

Speaker 2: 5:21

So thank you, Dr Tran, and it was so nice we had to have him on twice.

Speaker 4: 5:26

We did.

Speaker 2: 5:26

And I think that might be our second most listened to episode.

Speaker 3: 5:30

I got to feel like people like Dr Tran. Sounds like we need a sounds like he needs to be a regular third on our podcast.

Speaker 2: 5:38

And then I picked up Kaitlyn Schess from the airport and said why not, we make this out of a podcast, out of this, and so the audio quality wasn't great on that one, but we enjoyed it. We had a good conversation. You could enjoy that. That was just on my iPhone driving back from Austin. Let us talk about. We talked about oh, what is the best denomination? That's probably one of our other more popular ones, and so if you have yet to listen to that, we'll tell you what is the best denomination and why you should leave yours and join it.

Speaker 3: 6:10

That's exactly the purpose.

Speaker 2: 6:12

And then the best testament Keep you to faith. With Shirley Langston, with the sin of certainty, got some good response.

Speaker 3: 6:22

Good engagement, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 6:25

I mean, we had kind of responding to some stuff that's been going on with mass shootings. We talked about inerrancy. That was a big one, yeah, a little spicy. We've done some stuff, man, we're not shying away. Look at us CRT, atomant Theories, restoration, discipline, church Discipline whether we throw out the word sin, reparations. You know, heaven and hell. Did we do that twice? Maybe Did we do it twice, I don't know.

Speaker 4: 6:58

I feel like I just read that twice.

Speaker 2: 7:00

And then we had a long series here on sexuality biblical sexuality, what is that? And then, just last week, masculinity and femininity. So there's not a lot that we shied away from of those conversations. Which one would you say was your favorite, malcolm?

Speaker 3: 7:18

My favorite, yeah, my favorite of our episodes. Let's see, a lot of them were fun. Yeah, would Jesus tick tock? I'm thinking of the things where we got into, I'm trying to think of we got into any relatively heated debates.

Speaker 1: 7:39

Oh, always.

Speaker 3: 7:39

Between the two of us, yeah.

Speaker 2: 7:40

Still can't, still can't believe. I don't know.

Speaker 3: 7:45

What can't you believe?

Speaker 2: 7:47

I actually don't know, oh okay, all right, maybe the heaven and hell. We had the different views of hell.

Speaker 3: 7:54

Yeah, well, I know we did Well the heaven and hell one. It was probably like a general eschatology kind of thing, sure, and then later on we talked a little bit more about hell, particularly because that's a controversial one. Yeah, yeah, man, I don't know man.

Speaker 1: 8:11

Yeah, it's hard to say.

Speaker 3: 8:12

I like the lot. I like the lot of them.

Speaker 1: 8:15

Yeah, I like the lot of them.

Speaker 3: 8:18

But especially the time with our guests, though.

Speaker 2: 8:21

Yeah, that's where I'm like man, that was pretty sweet. So we're going to try to court some more guests in 2024 that you guys are reading or listening to as well, and try to bring on and who knows? I mean there's people who said yes this year and came on that we were like I never would have thought you would have said yes.

Speaker 1: 8:41

So who knows?

Speaker 2: 8:42

We'll shoot for the mood and see who we can get.

Speaker 3: 8:45

Who did you think was the hardest? Who did you think was going to be the hardest to get of the people that we had?

Speaker 2: 8:51

I mean they all, I mean I can't believe Caitlin Schess, I can't believe Duke Kwan.

Speaker 3: 8:55

They're my friends, man.

Speaker 2: 8:56

I mean Dr Trans here, even though, like this, is why I got friends.

Speaker 3: 9:02

I just want to bring friends on the podcast. That's what this is about.

Speaker 2: 9:05

So let's make more friends. I'm all about making friends. So I guess Are you friends with Cornell West, the presidential candidate?

Speaker 3: 9:13

So, speaking of Cornell West story about Cornell West, I don't know if I told you this one. So when I was at Columbia doing this, I did a faculty roundtable for them on the role of forgiveness and racial justice, and so I was meeting up with a friend at a like just at a coffee shop, and we were sitting outside and he had done so, we both. He had done his undergrad at Wash U Mdivit Yale, same as me, but a few years behind me, and we're just, and we're sitting outside, and he's just like, oh, malcolm, it's Cornell West, walking, walking, walking by, and I'm like, wait, wait what. And so then I turned around and I was like, oh yeah, and he had just taken a class with him.

Speaker 3: 10:02

And so he's like let's go, let's go over and say let's go over and say hey, I was like yeah, I mean we, we, we met at Baylor a few, a few years ago, so I know we're dept them up. Give them a hug and they kept to move it because I think he, he remembered me one of one of my favorite pictures. It was my, it was my Facebook profile for a while, but it was me, yes, it was me, and it was me and me, and me and me and Brother West. So so we'll see, after the book is done, I'll reach out and see if I can get. I joked with him when I met him that I, that I, that I would ask him to endorse the book when it, when it comes out.

Speaker 3: 10:37

So we're going to OK, if I can, if I can, if I can nail that word, we're golden. Let's do that. That's my Cornell West story, because you named it. You named it, yeah.

Speaker 2: 10:47

Yeah, that's awesome. I mean, I don't know who I could bring on that's at that level. I don't know if you come on the podcast but I know a lot of pastors who you know pretty big deal.

Speaker 3: 11:02

Pretty big deal.

Speaker 2: 11:05

My mom thinks I'm cool.

Speaker 3: 11:08

Well, Slim, what do you want to? What do you want to talk about? What do you want to talk about today?

Speaker 2: 11:11

Well, this is the that we want to unwrap and talk about the best of this past year. So let's, let's go, and let's let's start a little more substantive. Let's start with things that we can actually chew on, and then we'll go more fun, light, and so let's talk about the best thing you read this past year. Is there one or three? Let's let's cap it at three, because I have a feeling you've read more than three books this past year.

Speaker 3: 11:38

That is, that is accurate.

Speaker 2: 11:40

How many books you feel like you read this year.

Speaker 3: 11:41

That's a good question, because over under it's also 30 over under 100. Maybe no like so At any given time I'm also working through like multiple yeah.

Speaker 3: 11:56

So like I've read portions of this and portions of that, but it like if I finished it it's because it was really good. So, yeah, cause, like there are a bunch of, there are some books that I've like that I've started going through. There are ones that I've taken pieces of, especially with, especially with writing the book and stuff. There are elements of a bunch of books that I'm all that I'm just constantly in. Yeah, but I had to look through, I looked through Amazon to see, like, of the books that I'm going through, which ones did I get? Did I get this year? Yeah, it was this year that I encountered let's see what's his name. What's his name? It's when I encountered Stephen Morrison. Yup, stephen Morrison's book All riches come from injustice, the anti-maman witness of the early church, and it's anti-capitalist relevance. So that so, basically what that book is, it's just a series of largely quotes from the early church.

Speaker 2: 13:08

Okay.

Speaker 3: 13:10

And then kind of his reflection on them. But one of the things that that also opened me up to was coming to terms with the fact that and there's another book on specifically this phenomenon but in the first few centuries of the church you have a more or less common assumption that wealth, that wealth, that is, riches, are a bad thing, associating it with mammon. But then over the course of time you get and you see hints of this in the first few centuries, but over time it becomes more and more popular to think of wealth as something that's perfectly fine as long as you use it, as long as you use it right. But it's interesting to see just a collection of quotes where the primary thrust of it is like stay away from riches. If you find yourself in possession of riches, quickly give them to the needy. It's like an allergy. It's fascinating to see just kind of a critical mass of those sources. And that quote all riches come from injustice is a quote from Jerome where he's reflecting on a broader proverb where he's like a rich man has either got his riches from injustice or a rich person is either an unjust person or the air of an unjust person.

Speaker 3: 14:58

I was like, oh okay, but yeah, there are just these bracing quotes from theologians in the first few centuries that I think would shock a lot of people today. But in their seeking to be obedient to Jesus, this is where they came down on money. That's one of them. And then there were just a few books, also on poverty. Today that struck me. So poverty by America.

Speaker 2: 15:36

What's the thrust of that for those who have not?

Speaker 3: 15:40

Yeah, so that's by what's his name. His name is Matthew Desmond and he's also got a book called Evicted, which is also really good, where he traces these families in Milwaukee, I believe, that are going through eviction, and it's also a bigger look at kind of the housing industry and housing crisis and things like that. But poverty by America is basically asking the question why do we in the wealthiest country in the world have the levels of poverty that we do? And basically one of his conclusions is well, it's because poverty is profitable for the rest of us, and part of this goes to just kind of our broader economy. But also it looks at the way that just kind of particular industries work. So it looks at banks and the fact that you have banks making millions and millions of dollars off of overdraft fees, which are largely lobbied against basically the poor and other things like that. That basically explain when James Baldwin said a while ago that it's really expensive to be poor. It kind of maps out just this web of exploitation that specifically the poor in this country are most susceptible to, and that's a powerful read. I really do recommend that.

Speaker 3: 17:25

But then there's another one called $2 a day, which is harrowing. That one's by. So hold on, let me just find the authors for that one. That one is let's see $2 a day, living on almost nothing in America, by Catherine Edd and Luke Schaefer. It's this kind of thing where so they trace these families who, on average the cash that's available to them less than $2 a day per person, and part of it is. So the way they start, basically, the way that they start by arguing in the book, is that once welfare is done away with in 1996, and you have these reforms that specifically do offer many more resources to the working poor, in so doing it also pulls the floor out. So if you have trouble finding work or trouble keeping work for whatever, reason essentially you're out of luck.

Speaker 3: 18:57

So there are these stories, and so then basically you have these folks who are working, want to work, all that kind of stuff, and then they can find themselves in.

Speaker 3: 19:15

So when you look at especially the low wage sector, the kinds of hours that are demanded of people are variable and you're expected to be available at times that you may not be able to plan for and stuff like that, which makes it difficult, especially if you have children. And so there are these cases of these families where, for example, the mother's working and then something happens with the kid, they've got to stay home and they lose their job because they had to miss a shift and they didn't know that they were going to have to miss a shift, and then it's months before you can find a new job, and then in those intervening months you still got to have a place to live, you still got to have food, all those kinds of things, and when you don't have family that supports you, things like that, you end up in these really dire situations where people are the only money that they're bringing in is being able to sell plasma and all this kind of stuff, and I think that it's a powerful book. But yeah, those will be the three.

Speaker 2: 20:27

There's that quote, who is Ernest Hemingway, where he talks about how do you go bankrupt, and he says it happens gradually, and then suddenly and I've heard that quote a lot in the last couple months and just seen that where it's this thing and then this thing and then this thing kind of compounds upon itself, and then all of a sudden now it's sudden and so it doesn't just happen like that. But when it does happen, it happens like that, like you're not ready because you've lost all those support structures.

Speaker 3: 20:55

Yeah, and this is one of the reasons why I and it's also Reading all this stuff has also kind of refined my ecclesiology, because for me it's that, like I don't want anybody, I don't want anybody in our congregation to ever have to go.

Speaker 3: 21:18

I don't want any human being to ever have to go through that, but I also want at least the folks at Archer's to understand that there is a community that has promised to come alongside them. And I read these stories of folks who are in abusive families and all this kind of stuff, where the only place that they have to live is with their uncle who ends up sexually abusing their child, like those kinds of situations are common, and I just it's just one of these things that constantly presses in on me. It's like, however, I have the opportunity to try to help build a community of people where we don't want to see those kinds of things happen to each other and where we can actually build structures to actually make that actually take place, and it just kind of it's refined a lot of that for me. So, yeah, those will be my three.

Speaker 2: 22:19

The Dear listener. You're going to hear the contrast of Malcolm's three versus my three pretty starkly it's okay, there's no pressure, it's great. So what were your? I promise, I read those as well.

Speaker 3: 22:36

No, no, no, no, no, no. It's okay for us to have different interests. We have to be the same person. No, we don't, no, we don't, no, we're not.

Speaker 2: 22:44

So early in the year I began on this journey of trying to grow, I realized I was at a stage, we were at a stage where the same person it takes to be a church planter is not the same person it needs to be to be a pastor of an organization and so it was like the same giftings in one stage aren't needed at another stage and if you want to stay in that and not saying like this is ever a threat to me from anyone, but it was just like this is an area of growth for me, of kind of growing in leadership, and so early in January kind of just got by gifting of your wife.

Speaker 3: 23:27

She has like 30 books on leadership. She's an HR, she's formerly an HR professional, so she's got.

Speaker 2: 23:35

So I told her like this was like a goal of mine. She's like, oh, I have so much resources for you. And I was like, okay, cool, yeah, whatever. And then I came by to y'all's house for something else and she's like, hey, those books over there, those are yours. I'm like all of them.

Speaker 2: 23:50

So there was some great stuff in there, but one that I and I'm not even sure if this was part of that book a part of that list was this book called Atomic Habits by James Clear. This I cannot recommend highly enough. Across not just you're trying to grow in leadership. I think this is something that every single human being, whether you're Christian or not. I think it was just really helpful, because what his argument is is you know, every time you try to change something like, why, like, as the New Year's is about to happen, you're going to have some new goals for your new year, and most people can say you know, I've made this New Year's list, these resolutions, and you know, 90% of them fail by April. They're gone by then.

Speaker 2: 24:45

And so what he's talked about in that book is the power of 1% better, because we usually think, all right, I'm going to lose this much weight, I'm going to gain this much money, I'm going to get this job, I want to do these things.

Speaker 2: 25:03

And he talks about how, like, the power of 1% is kind of like with compound interest, like you think, with, like you know, if you're a financial person these Roth IRAs, where it's like just a little bit, little bit, but it keeps multiplying by itself, but over time it becomes a much bigger thing. And so what he's trying to say is we should be far more concerned with our trajectory than our current results. And so his argument is forget about the goals, basically like forget about your resolutions, focus on the systems instead. And so what he would say is you know your goal. If it was to, you know, lose 50 pounds. Don't look at that Like what's the type of processes and systems you need in place. That would be the type of person that would do that. And so what's funny is I'm reading this book for leadership and I was like 1%, okay, cool, so currently not the healthiest human being in the world.

Speaker 2: 26:05

I'll just put it out, there I was. I was 2, 245, 245 pounds.

Speaker 4: 26:12

When.

Speaker 2: 26:14

In January of last year.

Speaker 4: 26:15

Wow.

Speaker 2: 26:18

And it was like you know, and I really didn't like, I really wasn't like I need to win, I need to worry about this. I was just, you know, I'm just my nickname's Slim. I've embraced that, that's who I am Like. It's not like a concern and anyways. But I was like you know, let's try 1%, let's try it, let's implement what he says. And I really was. I'm like I'm not going hardcore because it was not really like a big deal for me.

Speaker 2: 26:45

I was just like let's just eat breakfast a little bit better, Because donuts every morning seems to not be like it's the best for me long term, I guess.

Speaker 3: 26:56

I guess I should stop doing donuts every morning then.

Speaker 2: 26:59

And so donuts every morning may be like a stretch, but but not too much of a stretch, Like there's things that you could replace that with You're like. Well, it's not a donut, but it's like a, a cinnamon roll, or it's a bagel.

Speaker 2: 27:11

Or it's like you're like we're still eating, not the best, anyway. So it was just, let's just eat 1% better. So I was like, let's just do that. And so I started doing that. And then you know, it's like what's the time of person that would this? And I'm like, well, maybe I'll just, I'll go, I'll go for a walk once a day or whatever, or three times a week, I think.

Speaker 2: 27:31

I started there Cause I was like, really I was I just took it, took it little by little and over time I was I kind of got like a, a desire for it and I, because of what he's saying here, like it became easier and easier because I wanted to just focus on the systems, not the goal Cause. So, backstory, 10 years ago or so, I was at 270. So I was, that was what was really unhealthy. I went to the doctor and cause Kristin made me. She was like you need to go and get a sleep apnea machine because that's two of me slim, yeah, that's a lot, I mean, and and I think then I was like, yeah, things aren't great. But so I went to the doctor and she was like I can't prescribe the sleep apnea machine to you, or, or let me just show you this BMI chart, this body mass index, which everyone knows. Like these things aren't like science, like it's not like like exact, and so not always helpful, but at that moment it was able to just have like this, you know, objective, not subjective thing, just to be like here's your height, here's your weight, here's your category, and it was like extremely obese, and I'm like you know that that doesn't feel, like that's who I am, like I play, I play frisbee with people, I run around like I'm whatever, anyways, so I so then, anyways, I set a goal of 200. And so I was like I'm going to go from 270 to 200. And that's what I'm going to do. And I did, I lost 70 pounds and I was like wonderful.

Speaker 2: 28:59

But here's where I think what his, his argument here is is the problem with goals is you like sometimes you hit them and then you stop and then you stop. And so I celebrated and I and I just kept fluctuating back, up and up and up, and and so what he would argue is that systems are much more important. Systems are about the process that leads you where you want to go, and so the only way to win is to actually get better every day, not just actually win, that. He quotes the, you know Super Bowl champion, the coach, bill Walsh. You know the score takes care of itself. And so if all you care about is the score, like okay, but for the coach and for those, those people, they're like well, let's just worry about practice, let's worry about doing the things the right.

Speaker 2: 29:41

And so, like he was, the James Clear was arguing like winners and losers both have the same goals. So what? Why does like they like in sports, like they both want to win? What distinguishes one from the other? And it's that some are only focused on the goal and some are like well, what it?

Speaker 2: 30:00

takes to get there.

Speaker 1: 30:00

You have to actually work every day for these things and you actually do these things. The results aren't the problem.

Speaker 2: 30:06

It's the system that is the problem, and our goals actually restrict, restrict us, and he talks about his like goals restrict your happiness because it puts you in this moment of well, then I'll be happy when I get to that weight.

Speaker 1: 30:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker 2: 30:23

And until then I'm kind of I'm sad and then also I'm disappointed in myself, which then puts this negative self-reflection of going all right, maybe I don't, maybe I should throw up my hands and give up. And so I have lost almost the equal amount of weight. So I'm now at one seven D five. So I've lost 70 pounds again. Wow man. But people keep asking like so what's your goal? And I'm like well, here's the thing.

Speaker 3: 30:51

I actually don't have a goal.

Speaker 2: 30:52

Because if I do, I know I'm going to jump back up, and so it's just really, it's like let's just seems like the healthy way is to work out pretty much every day and just stop eating doughnuts for breakfast, every and for dinner and for you know cause? It's just it's been a hard day. You know what I need? I need doughnuts and I need queso and I need liquor.

Speaker 3: 31:14

Well, this is good Cause I remember this conversation that we had, you know, a few days ago, when we were talking about sugar and you, I think you had made a joke about the, about kind of your new self and your old self, and my question was basically like, is this old self like, really like, is this new? Is this new slim actually a new slim, or is it just? Or is it just well, like we're doing?

Speaker 3: 31:42

a really good job we're doing a really good job suppressing old slim and it's very much new and and from you narrating this, this kind of line of thinking like that makes sense, like new, new, I mean new habits. New habits have been set to the extent that they're not even I mean, it's not even a super conscious I have to wake up and do these kinds of it becomes, it becomes, it becomes habit. And this is something I mean, we know this even about. I mean even about the spiritual life that that, that, that these, that habits, that habits that we habits, that we set, actually do form, form and shape us.

Speaker 2: 32:21

Yes, yes, and this is where I think I love this book, because it's not for me.

Speaker 2: 32:24

I'm not like promoting it to here, as like the weight loss book Like it was, but it was one part and it was like a tangible thing for me to kind of track and you see actual change. But it's it's also. I mean, again, I went into it reading these things about leadership and thinking about that and being more self disciplined in my life, like it. Just it was kind of a picture of being like I was just what really wasn't that self disciplined in a lot of life. And so it's it's been able to just kind of be able to think, okay, what, what can I do one percent better each day, not just to like become perfectionistic, but it was just kind of just simple things so that it is longterm and so in these things, compound where it's as you just said I don't have to think about it.

Speaker 2: 33:08

It's not like this big, like all right, I guess I'll go to the gym. It's like no, I'm.

Speaker 3: 33:13

I'm going to the gym.

Speaker 2: 33:14

And which is a freeing thing for your mind, because you can get so exhausted with the millions of decisions you have to make in life versus just like no. These are the decisions. This is made.

Speaker 2: 33:23

This is what I do, this is and so like, and, but the book it goes through so many good things. I'm just like, like how to? How to make these things last and kind of, have you know making making those decisions obvious, how to make them enticing, you know making these, these kind of? Anyways, it's, it's, it's a fantastic book. I highly recommend it. So that's one book that that I I really enjoyed this past year and I'll probably go back and reread it.

Speaker 2: 33:49

So the one I feel like came about just because I was, I was, I was hearing, I was hearing about this from other people and then I just like that feels like that's describing our the, the problem, not the problem, the, the, the, the hurdle of this generation right now. And it's this book called the Happiness Hypothesis by an NYU psychologist, jonathan Haight. He's also written the Colleen of the American Mind, so he's, anyways, he's a NYU professor and the the argument that he talks about in that a lot that I think the reason I was drawn to it is this like, how do you make decisions and how do you go back Like, how do you actually form people to to change and again, this isn't just about changing on anything as specific, but like just in life and then, how do you actually talk with people and persuade people if you ever in a disagreement with someone? And he gives us an analogy of this image of an elephant and a rider. Have you heard this?

Speaker 3: 34:56

Maybe, maybe Okay.

Speaker 2: 34:57

Okay. So basically that your brain is torn and we think, well, let's just give people more facts Like if oh, this is how they'll know that the election wasn't stolen. They just need to have the facts proven to them. And yet we in our country I mean you can ask the country and I would say 50% say it was stolen, 50% it wasn't stolen.

Speaker 1: 35:19

There's a lot of people who say it was stolen, right.

Speaker 2: 35:21

Like we are so divided on this and yet you're like what facts came out? How did you not see these things? Or you can go into something more personally and be like, hey, you know, I shouldn't eat that at midnight, and yet you still do these things. And so the rational side of your brain doesn't always win out. And so his analogy is there is a rider, a you know someone riding, a man or woman, riding on top of an elephant, and the elephant is the emotional part of your brain, and so you have this emotional and rational part, and when there's a disagreement between the two, who is going to win? So, like in reality, if a rider is riding on an elephant, he has like a little you know thing to guide the elephant around, you know to guide its head one direction or the other. But if the elephant sees water over there and the guy to the left and the rider wants to go to the right, the the elephant's going to, to the water.

Speaker 2: 36:17

Like you can't use that. It is so much bigger, it is out of control if they, if the elephant wants that thing and this is so. This is why, when you are, when you are trying to eat healthy on, you're on like a long road trip and you, you are just tired, you know. And then you, you see the McDonald's arches and you're like I'm just exhausted, like the emotional part, like rationally, that's probably not good for me, but like and the like, the emotional and like the physical part is just like, I just need this right now. This is why I think that Snickers commercial gets it so right that like like you're not you when you're hungry.

Speaker 2: 36:53

Yeah, like, that's, like that's it. But I think I think the reason I really enjoyed this analogy is because just thinking about, like what we are trying to do, even on this podcast, of talking to people and trying to persuade on some, on some, you know, controversial topics we've talked through Information alone, yeah, doesn't, will not change no, someone's mind, yeah, so like thinking we're going to change people's writer and, yes, we have to speak to that, but like you have, and so also then you could think of more one-on-one conversations as you're talking with anyone, if you're. If you ever have to have a hard conversation with someone in, you know, in conflict, like just saying the infrom, the facts alone is not going to, all of a sudden they'll go like, oh, I'm so sorry.

Speaker 1: 37:41

You're correct.

Speaker 2: 37:42

I've changed my mind completely now. It's like you have to speak to the, to the elephant, the emotional part here of going like I can see we're in a heightened state here and so just trying to that that that picture. So the reason I bring this up, like I just feel like I'm seeing that in every conversation, whether it's around the political stuff that we're, we've been in and what we're going to go in and in 2024, around kind of different theological, you know, bombshells and things like this, that you know things that people are going to disagree on, like how do you get there?

Speaker 2: 38:16

And it's like I feel like you have to be able to at least have some humility in in approaching someone and being like you know I, I don't know, I, I'm not where you're at, but I can see how you got there and try to speak to the, to the emotional side of that, like that all people are bringing into it, and then to be able to actually then direct the writer of kind of make some of the rational arguments, yes, cause you like, how else are you going to direct an elephant if, unless you, you say there's there the longterm that that that little well that you're drinking of is going to run out? But there's a giant lake over here, elephant, let's go over here. So try how to? How do you direct that elephant over there? But that's where I think the answer is you have to motivate the elephant.

Speaker 2: 39:03

So this is where I think one of the things that we're going through as churches right now going through the start on the mount. But what I love about what Jesus does with the Beatitudes is he's saying these are the blessings. Like, this is the beautiful part of living the Christian life. Yes, it's going to be hard and it's going to be upside down, but like he, he, he make, he paints it so that people will want it to be true.

Speaker 2: 39:24

And that's what I love about like when someone talks about you know the, the Christian life, it's not just like. Well, here's the cold, hard facts. Believe it Like, otherwise you're going to hell Like okay, that's what that?

Speaker 4: 39:35

that, that form of evangelism used to work.

Speaker 2: 39:38

I did. I've seen the tracks and you know people tell us.

Speaker 1: 39:43

I don't know.

Speaker 2: 39:44

I used to do that as well.

Speaker 1: 39:46

But it's, it feels so far removed.

Speaker 2: 39:48

It's so long ago. I think now we have to be able to say like, let me, let me paint you the picture of, of, of Shalom here on earth.

Speaker 2: 39:56

And that's so beautiful that you would want it to be true, even if you don't believe it. Not to like cave to the culture, or cave to what people want or whatever, but just to be like no, this is actually better. And so I think you have to motivate the elephant and then kind of shape the path of like all right, here's how do we get to from, from this little aquifer to this lake.

Speaker 3: 40:19

So that's good.

Speaker 2: 40:21

Yeah, yeah, I really I really enjoyed it. So those, those two, and then one quality, some quality stuff. So yeah, it's different than what you're reading, all right, but then one that I'll, I'll, I'll just bring up because I think it was just. It is some of that had been I've been chewing on all year long and we we finally got to with our conversations these last couple months.

Speaker 3: 40:40

But Greg Johnson's books yeah, still time to care. Oh, yeah, that's.

Speaker 2: 40:46

And so if you have yet to get that right now, you can go. You can get that, it's super cheap. Go ahead and get that. But just this whole year has just been so helpful just to really dive into this conversation and just just realize and there's a whole community of folks who have been courageously involved in these and explored the complex layers of living this life Anybody whom we talk to that are same sex, attracted themselves and yet still hold to a traditional sexual ethic. And because they, they've seen, as we just said, like the beauty of this life that we want to be true, Like they've seen it, it's not just that they've been told this is the right way.

Speaker 2: 41:23

They've been, they've seen that this is the beauty of in the truth of scripture, and so I just I think that book does a great job of kind of painting the the picture of where we were at as a church and kind of history, but also then wrestles with some of the scriptural texts and things like that. So that's good.

Speaker 3: 41:39

Yeah, our dear listeners will recognize that we have no fiction on our lists.

Speaker 2: 41:47

Yeah, malcolm and I we have, so we do have a lot of different likes, but this is actually one area that we're very similar. We don't do a lot of fiction, but when we do, we found out that he and I also have a weird, weird fascination. That I guess maybe for you, it started with some of the like Ted Decker, Christian, yeah it did start, Frank Frank Peretti and like piercing the darkness of this present darkness. I never enjoyed those. Oh bro. Spiritual warfare fiction oh no, no, but so for me though, what?

Speaker 4: 42:26

I found out was we both thought that was a good idea.

Speaker 2: 42:31

We both really enjoy horror books, but serial killer Stephen James. And there's a particular author, Stephen James. We'll shout you out, he is Christian, but the way this began for me, did I introduce you to Stephen James?

Speaker 3: 42:47

Yes, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, and I took all of your books.

Speaker 2: 42:50

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 42:51

I ran through them real quick.

Speaker 2: 42:53

Oh my goodness, it was funny. I went on a plane kind of trip. We went on a trip, chris and I, and somewhere and my parents took Knox, our youngest at the time. He was super, super, super small, and so we dropped Kittu off with him when we flew and my mom said hey, here's, I found this book at the Christian bookstore for you to enjoy on your plane flight. And I was like gosh.

Speaker 1: 43:18

Thanks mom.

Speaker 2: 43:19

Like Christian bookstore fiction, Not my jam, no, thank you. Anyways, I got bored and I picked it up in the opening scene. It was the book. It was the third book of the series, so they're all chess pieces. It was the night and so you know pond rook night, and so, anyways, the opening scene was this guy was getting into his SUV or car, in his garage but unbeknownst to him, there was a man underneath his car and slit his Achilles heel and then murdered him.

Speaker 4: 43:55

And I was like what.

Speaker 3: 43:58

Mom. Well, that escalated quickly.

Speaker 2: 44:02

And I realized it's a book about a FBI agent who tracks down serial killers. I was like, well, this is interesting.

Speaker 3: 44:07

I think I might keep reading it so.

Speaker 2: 44:08

I've read the whole series. Gave it to Malcolm. You read it all. It was great.

Speaker 4: 44:12

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 44:12

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 44:12

Yeah, that's the best thing, that's the best fiction.

Speaker 3: 44:16

You know, hey, if we're going to read, apparently, if we're going to read fiction, it's going to be super, super dark.

Speaker 2: 44:20

Not lower the rigs.

Speaker 3: 44:23

But my brother, my brother-in-law, is a huge Brandon Sanderson fan. Brandon Sanderson, just like basically every year, writes thousand page books and so I have all of them. I've read one of them. I think One and a half of them. He's always, he's always on me. My brother-in-law is always on me to read them so like every Christmas, he'll get me the next one.

Speaker 1: 44:48

I didn't have a.

Speaker 3: 44:49

I didn't have just thousands and thousands of pay Like I'm, like bro, I first of all, I don't read fiction that often. So, this is going to take years. This is going to take years for me to actually read.

Speaker 1: 44:59

Probably.

Speaker 3: 45:00

Probably, but you know.

Speaker 2: 45:04

There's one other fiction that I do read, and that's comic books.

Speaker 3: 45:07

Yeah, yeah, comic books.

Speaker 2: 45:10

Only specifically, though mostly just Batman comic books. Okay, trade back.

Speaker 3: 45:13

Still dark. That's the dark. That's the dark one. That's the dark one.

Speaker 2: 45:17

They've gotten pretty adult.

Speaker 3: 45:19

I appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 45:20

Yeah, I'm sure we won't go to those, but All right, we spent a long time on the best thing we read.

Speaker 3: 45:28

That's basically the whole episode.

Speaker 2: 45:30

I mean, I told you we started out a little heavier, a little more substance, let's go, let's go. And what we enjoyed, what was the best thing you watched this past year and I'll give you categories of TV, movie and life. So best thing you watched on TV Do you watch TV?

Speaker 3: 45:48

Oh yeah, I mean, I watched.

Speaker 2: 45:51

TV on Netflix so.

Speaker 3: 45:55

Desiree and I just finished. We, yeah, probably over the course of the year we watched all eight seasons of Homeland which is from years, I mean from years ago but I had watched it before, and so I introduced Desiree to it. She absolutely loved it. I watched that. I just finished With TV. I can like, oh wait, okay, so this year Attack on Titan finished this year, so my one of the anime is that that's done now, but that was amazing. Okay, it's amazing.

Speaker 2: 46:35

If you're not an anime fan, would you enjoy it?

Speaker 3: 46:39

Yeah, so it's funny. This is funny because, so, kevon Stage he's a comedian, yeah, so he watched, I think, blue-eyed Samurai on Netflix and then asked Twitter like I want to start an anime, what should I start? So the one that so people gave me their suggestions and the one that won was Attack on Titan, and so he started watching it and now he's like giving updates of, like his reactions as he's watching the first season.

Speaker 3: 47:14

It's absolutely hilarious to see somebody who has now Never watched the show, to watch the episodes and like and react to it and it's great. But yeah, it's like it was the kind of thing where when we got to, when we started to get to the end, the twists that happened were like just mind blowing, just even for me. And I love whether it's horror movies or thrillers or whatever, if you have a good, if you have a good, if you have a good twist, I am. I am sold. So, for example, spoiler alert for Ted Decker's book three, just in case.

Speaker 2: 48:02

Pause the podcast.

Speaker 3: 48:05

Fast forward a few seconds, but so I read through that book and then at the end of the book you find out that the main character, the villain and the main character's best friend are actually three, are actually three personalities of the same person, and it's one of these things where, like you know, you go back in the book and you realize that like they're never, like they're never actually in the same room at the same time, and like and like, nope, like, like there are there are characters that nobody else in the story talks to and things like that, and but like when? That?

Speaker 3: 48:44

when that was, I was like, I was like ah, but like though, like those kinds of things are like horror movies that have unreliable narrators and stuff, and then you find out, but like, that's the, that's the kind of stuff. Yeah, I love, love that stuff.

Speaker 2: 48:59

Well, let me tell you my, my, my.

Speaker 3: 49:01

TV go ahead.

Speaker 2: 49:02

Best, best day on TV is the show called the Bear. Yeah, did you watch it?

Speaker 3: 49:08

I have, I've, I'm, I'm half, am I halfway through the first season? Something like that? But yeah, I hear. I hear nothing but great things about the Bear.

Speaker 2: 49:16

So it's if you've watched any of it. So not spoiler, but a primer. It has a ton of language and it's this this about the Chicago restaurant titled the Bear and this one of the, the, the sons and kind of inherits it comes back and it's kind of a struggling restaurant and he he's this five star, you know rated chef comes back to kind of fix it up and and he's kind of trying to implement his way of doing things with you know a rough crew and his cousin and those that that are, you know, somewhat resistant and somewhat for it, but it is.

Speaker 2: 49:56

It is so intense and every person who, who who's been in the restaurant business, has said this is so accurate yeah. And everything is just like like the timing, like you feel like you can't, like you can't watch an episode and be relaxed, like we we, chris and I put it on and we were like I'm so intense, I'm so tense right now, like it, it, it forces you.

Speaker 3: 50:20

That's what that's what I I this is the so Deseret and I just started watching Madam. Madam Secretary, but the Bear was the suggestion I should have. I should have made off the off, the go back, yeah.

Speaker 2: 50:33

But the I mean the reason I think I love it. One is because it's it's very real, it's very gritty, um, but what he does and and I think what, what is so beautiful about the show is you have all these very rough characters, um that, but because he, he is committed to them um and committed to them having having a place to belong, that you see their, their story arc.

Speaker 2: 50:58

You know go from like someone you're like I, that guy needs to get out, like the fire him, like get him out of here, and to the point where you're like, okay, he's struggling, uh, he, he's hurting, and you see some of the backstory, and then you see, some change in growth and you're like and you see like the potential and all of these people and you're like and so it's really beautiful. It's also, you know, really really kind of very hopeful in the midst of very kind of some dark stuff.

Speaker 3: 51:19

Did you ever work in? You ever work in a restaurant?

Speaker 2: 51:22

Uh, no, no, I try to avoid that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Uh, best movie no-transcript.

Speaker 3: 51:32

Oh, best movie. What has come out this year? What has come out this year? What did I see in?

Speaker 2: 51:42

theaters. It's hard to say when you look back. I tried to look at what came out in theaters in 2023. Or it could be an old movie that you just saw for the first time in 2023. That's true. So I was looking at, I'm like okay, Barbie, that was a big one.

Speaker 3: 51:58

You enjoyed. I enjoyed Barbie. You enjoyed it.

Speaker 2: 52:00

I was a big fan of Robin Heiber. I thought was super intense and enjoyed that and I really enjoyed the A24 movies.

Speaker 4: 52:09

Talk to Me was really good.

Speaker 1: 52:12

Yeah, Talk to Me was good.

Speaker 2: 52:14

But the one that I'm gonna put on here is my best. It's all like cause it's most recent, so it's hard to say, but it was also such a great experience. Kristen and my younger brother and I, over Thanksgiving, we went, my parents took our kids and we went out, just the three of us, and saw Thanksgiving.

Speaker 3: 52:32

Oh, Thanksgiving, okay, Ah it was so good.

Speaker 2: 52:36

It is a comedy horror movie and it's so over the top People getting killed in most ridiculous ways. It was fantastic. There was not a lot redeeming qualities about it, it was just for me. It was great. It was a good night out.

Speaker 3: 52:55

Good yeah, good yeah. That's the other thing about both me and Slim. Horror movies are our jams yeah.

Speaker 2: 53:07

If you can't think of anything, we come back.

Speaker 3: 53:11

Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm a huge Denzel fan. And so when I knew that, when I found out that the Equalizer 3 was coming out, I was like I just know I'm gonna love it, like there's no other option.

Speaker 2: 53:24

I remember asking like hey, you wanna go see it? You know I'm actually saving that for my dad. Yeah, I had to watch it with my dad. It was great. Yeah, it was great.

Speaker 3: 53:34

I mean, it's just. Anytime that Denzel is on stage, he's on screen, it's just, it's so good, he's magnetic, and I'm just like I love it, I love it, I love it.

Speaker 2: 53:45

I just love it.

Speaker 3: 53:46

I love it and to see him and be seeing him be people up is also pretty fun.

Speaker 2: 53:51

Best thing you watched in life.

Speaker 3: 53:55

Best thing I watched in life was probably probably my youngest daughter learning to walk a week or two ago. Oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 54:04

That was. That was that's special.

Speaker 3: 54:06

That was pretty great Cause she's also super excited about it.

Speaker 2: 54:11

That's cool.

Speaker 3: 54:11

It was like it was almost bedtime and she had done like a step, but then it was almost bedtime and she took a few and she was like, oh, we're doing this. And so for like a half an hour it was her falling and then like getting up on the couch and doing more until she was. She was walking for like six or seven feet at a time, but we were like, oh well, we're walking now. So. So yes, that was.

Speaker 2: 54:37

I was trying to think of for myself. You know, our boys went in their soccer tournament was really fun, but the one that stood out was kind of a multiple moment, but it happened last night, so it's just really fresh. We're driving to Austin to see family, we're exchanging Christmas gifts, and my oldest son is in the, is in the front seat, knox is in the front seat next to me and man, I don't know, I guess, being 40 now I'm getting old, you're old, bro, and there's something about this 40 good crations, that's awesome.

Speaker 2: 55:13

Right, there's something about this car that we're sitting in and I don't get it. Every time I drive in this car over like an hour, whatever my back hurts, and.

Speaker 2: 55:22

I'm just sitting there like in so much pain and there's traffic so it doesn't be like a two hour drive, which it shouldn't be and so I'm sitting there, I'm just like putting my my hand, my fist, on my, on my spine, trying to try to help me, help me, help myself, help myself out, and and Knox is just like man I'm really sorry and I've just seen him grow so much in empathy and it's one of those things you're like that's what I'm proud of. And so like I you can, you can, you can get straight A's. Who cares? You could get, you could win soccer, whatever, like that's the stuff that I'm like. That means that's like shows me what you're going to become in life. Like that I just I'm like, I love that. And he's shown that in many other ways throughout this year. I've just kind of just you know you.

Speaker 2: 56:11

Growth in empathy and like showing. I really care for someone and I can. I can feel someone else's pain and I'm like I love it. Oh yeah, what's the best thing you learned this past year, malcolm?

Speaker 3: 56:27

What have I learned? I mean, I'm just, I'm constantly, I feel like I'm constantly learning. You want me to go? Yeah, go ahead, cause chances are what I learned is going to be like an existential thing rather than a like a fact. So go ahead.

Speaker 2: 57:00

All right. Well, what I learned this past year, I'm going to share it via on this podcast. We like to do a lot of our, you know our terrible tweets, oh dear. I'm going to do a, a not so terrible tweet a good tweet. This is from Michael Ware and he shares what an incredibly powerful video I never really liked. This is from Steven Foster and I'll just let it play.

Speaker 4: 57:33

I'm honest, I never really liked the church. I didn't even really like Christians that much. I used to think of it like a package deal, like you get Jesus and so you get the church and Christians thrown. It's just part of the package and there are some bits you like Jesus, some bits you don't like so much for the church and Christians. You find that a bit annoying. But I turned up the church and gave through it. I didn't really enjoy getting the church.

Speaker 4: 57:55

And then one day I was at the back of our church in East London and someone said to me oh, we need help to run the coffee team. I was like, working like 70, 80 hour a week, I'm like what? And they were like, yeah, we really do help running the coffee team on a Sunday. And I said I'm a pastor, I'm not a barista, I've got a job, I don't need no jobs to run the coffee team. I just, you know, sometimes you just can't even think of what to say. So I was like, ok, I'll do it, I'll do it OK. And I said why did I do that? So I turned up next week, you know, trying to get the cups and everything, get the coffee right, as I handed these cups to people who, something really changed in me. I found myself, as I handed coffee to these people, growing in love with them. I was like these people are amazing. Like this is this extremely diverse community been gathered from across the area. Probably not another place that looks as diverse and integrated as this. It's a miracle. And then even people I found a little bit more frustrating and complicated. As I handed them their coffee, I kind of grew in love with them and I kind of basically fell in love with the church. And then I kind of went back to the person who'd asked me to. I said we need a new coffee machine, we need better beans, we need better mugs. Like, come on, these are amazing people. I want this to be the best coffee that they get. You know, they come in a church on a Sunday morning. I got more and more passionate. I started to build a team to serve coffee on a Sunday morning.

Speaker 4: 59:20

I sometimes say making coffee changed my life Because I fell in love with the Church of Jesus Christ. I didn't realize why it was special, I didn't realize why it mattered, and as I made coffee for people, I suddenly realized, oh, the church is like the bride of Jesus Christ. It's like the thing he gave himself, like the church is God's home for the salvation of the world. There's no plan B and God is going to build his church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. So God is putting all his eggs in the church basket. I realized over those few weeks there's a beautiful thing here. Yes, it messes up, yes, it makes mistakes. You'll never find a perfect church. It's a beautiful thing and I thought that's what I want to spend my life building.

Speaker 2: 1:00:16

Yes, that's from Steven. I mean, that's a video of Steven Foster, who's now a director of St Aldates Anglican Church in Oxford and you know, serving coffee made him able to love the church. So what's the best thing I learned this year? I feel like that video encapsulates what I learned.

Speaker 2: 1:00:40

As I saw in our own church here in Waco, sometimes get nervous about asking people to serve and to volunteer because it feels like we are using people and I think churches can and overdo that.

Speaker 2: 1:01:00

But what I've seen and not just what he articulated, but what I've seen even in our church as we went from one service to two services this past year, and I was really nervous like can we get enough people to step up and to serve?

Speaker 2: 1:01:13

And not only did they, but people, as the season has gone, have wanted to serve multiple times and more times. And it's in these times when you are serving that it does change your perspective from like this consumer, like the church, this coffee, all these kids, to how do I care for this child that I'm teaching, and it just changes you to actually love the people. And so, like what I've learned and just seen, like asking people to jump in and serve is inviting them into this opportunity that they end up loving. Not everyone loves exactly where they're at, and so if you're serving in your church somewhere and you're not loving it, maybe there's a different spot to serve, but it's the church. As he said, it's the bride of Christ, and so I just think that's just a beautiful, powerful image of like. We don't ask these things, we're depriving people of these opportunities to actually grow in love for the church.

Speaker 1: 1:02:14

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:02:15

And so I thought that was powerful.

Speaker 3: 1:02:18

Yeah, one of the things that struck me, at least over the course of the past year, all in the same life that you were you were just talking is that you know, I came to realize that the so we, we, we have a culture and economy that broadly pushes us to be self-sufficient. Yeah, and, and one of the things that struck me is that what that does is that that keeps us, that keeps us from like, it keeps us from experiencing love.

Speaker 3: 1:02:53

So it not only keeps us from loving our neighbors, but it keeps us from actually experiencing the love of our neighbors, Because it's it's it's in those spaces where we recognize our need and actually ask for other people to help us in our need, that other people that have the opportunity to actually act in solidarity with us.

Speaker 1: 1:03:11

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:03:12

And and that's something that that's something that I think has been impressed on me over the course of this year, as I, you know, as as me and my family have had particular needs. So, like I think about, I think about a family. I think about a family at our church who who just even just you know has offered to like watch our kids, watch our kids for for a day, so that Desiree and I have some have some time together. Yeah, and like and this is already a family that's got a whole bunch of kids.

Speaker 1: 1:03:41

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:03:41

And there's like but, but, but for this particular family there is a joy, there's a joy that they take in, in being able to come alongside us and like, like, to the extent where I, I, you know, I, I thanked, you know, I mean, I, I, I thanked them and the and the wife responded no like, no like, thank, thank you, and I'm like, hmm, yeah, oh well like, that's like, but that's also.

Speaker 2: 1:04:12

it's like where your need matches their gifting, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:04:15

I mean and and and it's just a like it's. It's just like those are, like. Those are the kinds of kind of beautiful moments that I, that I, that I just hope everybody has an opportunity to experience, where you can see that, where you can where you can kind of see that, see that match where you know where, which is.

Speaker 3: 1:04:35

I think you know, I think it's one of the things that Paul's talking about in in 2nd Corinthians 8. When he's, when he, when he's telling the Corinthians to give to the Macedonians, he's like look, my goal is not that you're suffering, it's that that like, recognize that when they have need, you're there to fill it, and when you have need they're they're there to fill it yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:04:53

Um, and and and that like, which is, which is, which is to say, this is a, this is a phrase that I'm gonna that I'm gonna use in the book, probably, but it's that like, um, that, uh, that, that that equality is not. Basically equality isn't isn't a state, it's a relationship. So so that that at least the way that it's framed, at least the way that it's- framed in the scriptures that it's a that.

Speaker 3: 1:05:20

It's a that. It's a back and forth, not a okay, I got where I needed to be, you got where you needed to be. Great, we got it. No, it's that, it's it's it's. It's something that's worked out actually in in relationship, um, and and that's something that, um, you know, I mean I, I think there were a few ways that I was especially, I think, refined over the course of this year, but I think that's, I think that's one of, I think that's one of them that's good.

Speaker 2: 1:05:45

Um, now we go back to your Spotify. What was the best thing you listened to, malcolm? Maybe the, if you were able to go back and I did not go back and see what my genres and things like that were.

Speaker 3: 1:05:57

but so my, I can say my, I can say my genres, because my, um, my, uh, my tastes are eclectic. So my six top or five top genres are uh, gent music, so it's, it's, uh, it's like, it's some of it's like progressive metal type stuff, but that's what, that is Okay. Uh, Christian hip hop, future bass, um uh, smooth jazz and gospel, Nice, so, uh. So there's some, I'm sure, um, there's, there's, there are, there are likely some songs with some just really solid, really solid guitar work that I got into this past, this past year. But those are, those are my, those are my genres. That's the kind of stuff that's constantly, uh, that's constantly running in the car if I'm doing, you know, for my commute and stuff.

Speaker 2: 1:06:46

Nice yeah, um what I the best thing I listened to this past year.

Speaker 3: 1:06:51

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:06:51

Um also Was our podcast.

Speaker 3: 1:06:53

There it is. Ha ha. No, it's kidding.

Speaker 2: 1:07:02

Uh no, I saw this movie, birdman Um. Maybe, maybe it was this year, maybe it was last year, I'm not sure. Um, but the soundtrack to Birdman um is all this man named Antonio Sanchez, and it is just him the drummer, and it's let's see, do we get the music? You hear that. I don't know if we're getting trouble playing stuff, oh you know we might.

Speaker 2: 1:07:25

So, we're just going to do like, this is the soundtrack, it's just background, stuff, like this. But then there's there's also um, let's see what's, another one that um, uh, yeah, let's do this one.

Speaker 1: 1:07:46

Come on Maybe.

Speaker 2: 1:07:52

Yeah, so anyways, this is. I used to only listen to Interstellar and Hans Zimmerman for like writing. Hans Zimmer, Hans Zimmer.

Speaker 1: 1:08:04

I feel like I always say it the other way you do, you do, and it's funny.

Speaker 2: 1:08:08

Anyways, as a drummer I enjoy this, but also in writing it's nice to change it up and this is, and it builds up and it gets real intense, but it's mostly just background kind of drum music, and so a lot of my sermons and things like that are being written with that in the background.

Speaker 3: 1:08:23

Nice so yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:08:25

Antonio Sanchez. And then let's see what surprised you this year, malcolm.

Speaker 3: 1:08:34

Anything. What surprised me? What surprised me? I'll just fall back on my children, because with babies anyway there's a lot of quick growth over a short period of time. So it surprised me how different my two daughters are. The youngest is the adventurous one who will get into stuff and put everything in her mouth, so that's great for the parents who have to watch her all the time.

Speaker 3: 1:09:21

But yeah, it's these things that parents who have been in the game longer obviously tell you this stuff, but unless you actually experience it, you don't really know. It's true.

Speaker 2: 1:09:32

When I thought about this question, the first thing I thought of was that Trump is still a presidential candidate and I'm not giving political advice, but I was surprised that Colorado says he's not.

Speaker 1: 1:09:47

That just came out.

Speaker 3: 1:09:49

We'll see if Supreme Court upholds that or not. The Colorado's are pretty important.

Speaker 2: 1:09:53

But I was surprised that that's still out.

Speaker 3: 1:10:01

Well, and he's still popular, even while saying all kinds of racist stuff and violent. It indicates more broadly what people are comfortable with. It speaks to the broader political milieu.

Speaker 2: 1:10:32

Which someone shared.

Speaker 3: 1:10:37

Get ready for next year as we podcast through the elections.

Speaker 2: 1:10:49

Someone shared this quote from Carl Sagan. He's a poet. One of the saddest lessons of history is this If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.

Speaker 3: 1:11:12

Well, he's an astronomer. He's not a poet, he's a scientist. Sometimes he's got quotes, he's got quotes.

Speaker 2: 1:11:23

I was like, oh, that feels poignant, I don't know. I'm not ever thinking of myself as a worldwide political guy, but I just did not see that coming. Let's end with this what are you most looking forward to in 2024, malcolm?

Speaker 3: 1:11:57

Until this book comes out, it's at the forefront of my mind. For all this stuff, 2024 is going to be a year of marketing and editing.

Speaker 2: 1:12:09

In the world or just in your life? For me, true.

Speaker 3: 1:12:15

Every year is a year for marketing in the capitalist society, anyway, but in 2024, what are some big things that are going to happen in 2024?

Speaker 3: 1:12:30

Well, I've already, frankly, we're going through this series on the Sermon on the Mount. It's going to be basically the entire year. It's already reshaped me in ways and we've only done three or four sermons, and so, as I even personally continue to do this deep dive into even just these three chapters, but thinking about, look, these are things that Jesus asks of me now I told the church I'm a little scared because we won't be able to emerge from this unchanged. So I'm excited to see what that does, particularly for us, for our community, and what does for me the ways that I need to confess and the ways I need to grow, but also to see how that manifests itself communally. I'm excited for that. Like, even when I think about my life, the stuff that I get most excited about is the stuff with the church. So when I think about what I'm going to be most excited about, I'm thinking about what are the ways in which our community is going to grow stronger and more Christ-like. Honestly, those are the most exciting things.

Speaker 2: 1:13:46

I would second that I'm looking forward to where this takes us. But to give a different answer, I am very excited. In 2024 my parenterls are going to be moving closer. It's nice to have help on the way with kids, but not just have help with kids, but just seeing family more and more is always a good thing, If you have a good, healthy relationship with your family.

Speaker 1: 1:14:19

Right.

Speaker 2: 1:14:20

And we do. We love our parents. So looking forward to that. So, dear listener, we've gone this whole time and we have yet to ask you what are you looking forward to? What was your best answer? Some of those questions, your best of best thing you read, best thing you learn, the best thing you listen to best thing you watched, what surprised you? Answer those questions what are you most looking forward to in 2024? And then, and write us. We would love for this to have somewhat of a back and forth, as humanly as possible. And so write us at heavenly, heavenly pieces. New podcast of heavenly pieces.

Speaker 1: 1:15:02

No, hello at theologyinpiecescom.

Speaker 2: 1:15:05

So hello at theologyinpiecescom. So write that in, write questions, but also, just, yeah, we'd love to have you to write in. You can find us on the socials, on Twitter and Instagram. Let's have some outro music here and you know we do not ask for much. We don't have a Patreon. We don't, Though we may.

Speaker 3: 1:15:30

Not yet.

Speaker 2: 1:15:32

Maybe that's happened in 24-24. So if this year, if any of these podcasts this year has been helpful and you have yet to give a rating or review, could you do those? So now that does it truly does help us, and so we're very, very thankful for those of you who have. It's helped others discover this. And so if any of this stuff has been helpful in processing things that you're processing this past year, would you give that gift of a rating or review? This year you could give an actual gift, but there's other ways to do that. But this is a huge gift to us and it would help be a gift to someone else that might be able to find it. So take time to do that.

Speaker 2: 1:16:10

Man, we hope you guys have a merry, merry Christmas or we hope you had one and you have a happy, happy new year. Spend some time with friends and family, resting and relaxing and eating all the good things. Hopefully you can enjoy some of these books that we recommended, or some of the songs and movies and shows. We don't approve all of the shows and all the movies, but you know, enter at your own risk, but look forward to seeing you guys in the new year. We will talk to you then, malcolm. Last word.

Speaker 3: 1:16:39

Merry Christmas, always a joy. Ah, love it. Bye now.

Speaker 1: 1:17:25

I'm still recording.

Speaker 2: 1:17:42

We're doing it right now.

Speaker 3: 1:17:50

This is it.

Speaker 2: 1:17:57

I'm still recording.

Speaker 3: 1:18:00

That's happening right now.

Speaker 2: 1:18:01

What the lead it's seen. What the lead it's seen Are we going to give the people.

Speaker 3: 1:18:04

Hey, remember when you embarrassingly started taking off your?

Speaker 2: 1:18:05

shirt and running around, I don't know, I don't know. I mean, yeah, that thing definitely happened.

Speaker 3: 1:18:20

That is, yes, only going to be available to our patriots and subscribers.