Theology In Pieces
Join Slim Thompson, Malcolm Foley and many more to discuss and 'Apply the Gospel' into little bite sized pieces every week. email hello@theologyinpieces.com to ask questions or reach out.
Theology In Pieces
60 - Hanging by a Thread (Not Your Hair): End Times Q&A
The millennium debate often gets mired in abstract timelines, but Revelation 20 demands we focus on a different question: who actually reigns with Christ during this period? Malcolm and Slim unpack questions from Mosaic Waco's sermon series on Revelation.
In review of Slim's sermon on Revelation 20, we discuss: pre-millennial, post-millennial, amillennial, and Pan-millenial views. In a moment when many Christians seek political power without the cross, Revelation offers the path to reigning with Christ necessarily involves suffering with him.
We address other pressing questions like: what happens immediately after death? Will physical disabilities remain in eternity? How Christians should care for creation while maintaining eternal perspective. What about the RAPTURE? All of this...and... we have a NEW POPE! But is that news as important as the world records being broken? You'll have to listen to see.
Hanging by your hair world record
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Yo, yo, yo yo hey. Hello, dear listener, welcome to another episode of Theology in Pieces uh, where we are your host, slim and.
Speaker 2:Malcolm, and it's probably been less than a month at this. Well, it's been less than three months at this point since our last episode.
Speaker 1:So it's only been two weeks I consider that to be a success. Yeah, uh, I wish I would say we are your host, tom Morello and um.
Speaker 2:Zach De La Rocha. That's what I was hoping.
Speaker 1:Again this, um, zach de la rocha, that's what I was hoping you wish I was again. This music y'all just need to just look at that guitar going. I've been, I've been going down a rabbit hole, uh, with tom morello on youtube. You know, when they get your algorithms, they just they get you. They're like, oh, you're interested in this. Listen to tom morello talk about his political views.
Speaker 2:Yeah, billy corgan. Hang out with more socialists. Slim, hang out with more socialists.
Speaker 1:That's, that's the way to go anyways, uh, today, uh, we are doing a q, a mailbag, uh, from our church, uh, so we uh, as church did, have been going through the book of revelation.
Speaker 2:It's the best thing ever, yeah.
Speaker 1:Malcolm and I were talking about this earlier today. We both almost feel like a sense of loss at the end of that. Our sermon series through the book of Revelation is ending. We were kind of like do we just run it back, Do we?
Speaker 2:preach it again. Run it back, man. As I was saying, man, I feel like I'm supposed to wait until I'm about to die before I preach this series, because I feel like I'm done After this Sunday. I have to do this Sunday and then I'll be like alright, I guess we did it.
Speaker 1:It's so good, it's so good so yes, we're finishing that up this Sunday, depending on when you listen to this episode, but we are finishing that up, and prior to that we had a sermon I preached from Revelation 20, and we knew that would stir up a bunch of questions, because that chapter is one of the most hotly debated chapters in all of the Bible chapters in all of the Bible and so we did a Q&A afterwards and had people submit their questions, and so we'll talk about those here today from the church. But we think that you, the listener, whether you are from Mosaic or not, would benefit from that discussion. But before we get there, malcolm, as always, we want to catch up on what's going on in the world. You're all over the place. We could play a's going on in the world, um, you're all over the place. It's like we could play a game of where in the world is malcolm foley, which you introduced me to a fantastic uh, carmen san diego?
Speaker 2:um, yeah yeah, where in time is carmen san diego?
Speaker 1:there's a newer version of that song.
Speaker 2:That's so good so good, that was what that was. Those were banger. Saturday morning uh, cartoons for me, yeah, uh, that's good times but, malcolm, you're all over place.
Speaker 1:Uh, where have you been most recently? Uh, electronically, I'm thinking you're.
Speaker 2:You're like in a podcast every other day yeah, man, I just did truth table yesterday, okay, which I've been looking forward to for a very, very long time you have to go check out that you were with uh esau mccauley yes I'm just gonna be just regularly I'm just gonna be regularly with these off, so that's beautiful yeah, man, and then uh, podcasting all over.
Speaker 1:You're over you're coming on um uh gospel coalition, uh right look I'm trying to get.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to get this gospel coalition review. Anybody here who like goes on the website. If you want to make a suggestion for a book for them to review, have them review the anti-gree gospel.
Speaker 1:I am waiting especially if it's a negative, I'm wait.
Speaker 2:Look if. If somebody has negative things to say, I'm waiting for the haters man. I haven't had any significant haters yet. Oh, you got haters. I mean, they're out there, they're just not writing reviews not saying anything publicly about it come out here in these streets.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's pretty ironclad argument.
Speaker 2:I don't know that's what I'm saying. That's why I wrote the book. Oh, like ain't nothing you can say if you're a christian, right but yeah, correct, yeah, I got fighting words.
Speaker 1:We're on the same page. I got fighting words, that's right, um. But besides that, other non-violent fighting words, that's right, go ahead, very violent, non-violent fighting words. That's not raging, especially um. Hey, did you know there's a new pope? I did know that, yeah, how do you feel about that?
Speaker 2:feel great about it, about it. Yeah, glad he chose the name Leo XIV after Leo XIII, who wrote Rerum Novarum.
Speaker 1:Say that again.
Speaker 2:Rerum Novarum, which means of new things. But this is back in the 19th century, as he was basically guiding the church through the industrial revolution, gotcha, and one of the reasons why Pope Leo XIV chose that name was because he believes that the church is going through a second industrial revolution with artificial intelligence. Ooh, that it's going to have a significant effect on the way that we think about labor, but also just kind of our anthropology and things like that. So it's, it's uh, I think, as we, as we have new ways for, um, exploitative capitalism to suck, to drain us dry, it's good to have people in the church thinking about ways to uh resist that am I the only one that seems like?
Speaker 1:I feel like I'm not seeing the, the fear of ai like what? How is it negatively going to impact? I'm sure there's things out there, I'm just like I'm not seeing, like what's the big hub?
Speaker 2:so being in higher education. Yeah, I can see it because I mean think about new opportunities that students have to cheat and not write especially, but there are ways that that can play out in the classroom. But in thinking about labor, like I mean, there are people whose, if we go in the route that, for example, corporations in the market would like us to go, there are people whose jobs are just going to become obsolete because AI can do it better and faster and because the goal in many of these contexts is just to do things better and faster if we don't need people to do it and we can do it more cheaply with technology then people are going to lose a lot of their jobs.
Speaker 1:Having an ipad makes things faster and, uh, easier, and we're we're like that seems legit.
Speaker 2:The scale at which I'm not seeing the, the, the scale at which ai can do things faster, is is is I mean, and you, we know this from the ways that, like we're in an ai debate right now, just welcome to this new episode that we've created.
Speaker 1:No, I mean I mean.
Speaker 2:I mean, I mean you think about the ways that even pastors can use, can use ai to do stuff in ways that, uh, some of it is just like some of it can make our job more convenient. But some of it is just like some of it can make our job more convenient. But some of it like, if we wanted to outsource a lot of our job, we could right If I, if I wanted to outsource my sermon writing like I could, I can ask AI to write pretty good sermons.
Speaker 1:Wasn't there a? Um, yeah, there's a. There's a mega church pastor who has that AI app where you can go to and you can like talk to me like you could talk to. Let's pray and they pray for you and they pray with you, which seems great, like. That seems like no, no no problems now I know you're being facetious yeah, yeah, I wasn't before, but that is definitely like, oh well, I mean, but it's gonna it.
Speaker 2:It this is going to prompt questions, as it ought, about what it really, what it really means to be human, in a way that the industrial revolution didn't necessarily yeah, I mean it still had dramatic, like it's gonna have dramatic labor effects, but this is gonna, this is gonna be at the level of like what do you think intelligence actually? What do you think intelligence actually is? Because all AI really is is just really fast labor. Like that's another, I think, important distinction to make. Like it's not actual. When I think about intelligence, it's not actual intelligence. What it is is just really fast labor. So, when thinking about summarizing and things like that of just taking in massive amounts of data and then spitting it out to you in another form, like that's what it does, it's just a, it's just a really fast way to do that, um, because I I was thinking of ai is more of like just an advanced google and I'm going.
Speaker 1:Well, we didn't think Google was bad, but I guess you're right. It's more of an expedited labor because people will go hey, write this essay, this book review, and don't make it sound so polished that it would get flagged by my professor.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I can see that and and and it. It, it looks at the world and what's existing and then kind of compile, then kind of compiles from that. Yeah, you don't see all of those parts of the process, but but all it can work with is what's already out there, and the fact of the matter is is that there's a lot of stuff that's out there is garbage. The work of the work of wisdom, like, but but, but it's gonna. It's gonna require people to be able to articulate okay, like, what is the work of of wisdom? Because this isn't just about just kind of data, just kind of data gathering and data summarization. Part of what it means to be human is to actually in, is to actually uh, be involved in, in, in wisdom.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um so this is a the pope leo the 14th um, who is robert prevost.
Speaker 2:It's kind of a possibly a new uh emphases it's a priority of his, of his, which it was a priority of of francis's, francis's too, actually, um, um, so yeah, so yeah which sounds great.
Speaker 1:Um, but here's the thing. So, as someone who's not a Catholic, how much do you think this new Pope is going to impact our world? I mean, cause, I, I, I. I heard of Pope Francis, here and there a little little sprinklings um. I heard of the, the. I don't know how far back he was, but pope before that, pope benedict um, whose real name was.
Speaker 1:I never knew why they changed their names, but I guess it's more like an honor of, but like joseph joseph ratzinger uh was his name and we read one of his books on on uh covenant, covenant theology in seminary and I thought, thought that was actually fantastic. Which was like a Brilliant theologians, yeah, which I thought was like a wait, I've been taught, I've been raised to think these are like other Catholic is like another religion.
Speaker 1:And so it was like this popping of a bubble. Yes, we have distinctions and things we'll disagree on, but it was kind of like oh, that's really solid theology. And then the same thing with some of the stuff that pope francis was emphasizing on um, you know, social justice and what I think is an emphasis of um, this robert, uh, prevost, pope leo the 14th, uh, seems like stuff that I'm like, yeah, artily, I retreated something he put out there which, to me, I'm like I've never. Maybe this is why it's interesting to me is because he is from first Pope from America. Yes, he did a bunch of work in Peru, but I just feel like it was like something that was so far out there that I'm like I don't know Was the Pope who the Pope is? Is he? Is he from you know what? What country it was? Just it was something, and it's also not my denomination.
Speaker 2:So I was just like I never thought of it, but I feel like now it's going to be something we think about a little more. Um, I don't know. He's just, he's a. He's just a pastor of multiple billion people, like that's so, there's so like I mean, the question is just like do pastors and theologians have effect on the world? I, I, when you absolutely not.
Speaker 1:Let's pray that answer is no wait, I need validation. Yes, please, okay, so you think it's like just like just another pastor with another he's got.
Speaker 2:He's got a bigger pulpit, yeah, I mean he went to the mega church down the street.
Speaker 2:I mean, rome doesn't doesn't have the kind of it, it doesn't have the kind of political clout that, for example, it had back 400, 400, 500 years ago, but it's still incredibly significant. I mean, most Christians around the world are Catholic and so there is a significant influence there and an opportunity for people to think more moral and social thought, that Catholic social teaching is amazing, and and and and and. There are so, so, so, like just just in thinking about that, not only, not not only the tradition, but the, but the systems that surround that tradition. There are, there are yeah, there are there are definitely some opportunities to do some, to do some serious work.
Speaker 1:So you think this is going to be a net positive for the world um for america?
Speaker 2:you think it'll impact america even more so I don't know what, I don't know what effect it'll have on kind of, uh, national politics or whatever, but that that it's a matter of how he, how he chooses to use the significant influence that he's now going to have. Yeah, um, yeah, but, like you know, especially in the midst of other fascist regimes and stuff, people um, the, the, the, you know significant religious leaders have had the option to either, you know, you have the option to either conform or be uh, or be a voice of, just, of just resistance. One of the reasons why, um, I mean one of the unfortunate things, especially about a number of eastern orthodox communions I think about the russian orthodox folks specifically but, uh, when you get in bed with empire, that, that that dilutes the witness of the church significantly. Yeah, so it's too bad he's woke, um.
Speaker 1:So I mean, we had a chance, but we, we we got a woke pope, um which I think, uh, anyone who's suggesting it about, about the pope, is brother you're saying catholicism is woke, because this is what my god, the catholic faith, as you said this the ethical teaching of that is very, very much on the on the side of the immigrant, the, the poor, justice, and there's things that we'll disagree with that you go.
Speaker 1:This doesn't sound like woke with its view of women, uh, in leadership and its uh view of, you know, birth control doesn't sound woke, but you but people have labeled him as a woke pope. It's just so. We had a chance, but we got a woke pope Slim. It's too bad, slim.
Speaker 2:That discourse is just so. It's just so dumb. You know what?
Speaker 1:I don't want to go dark, I don't want to go dark.
Speaker 2:I thought about not saying that the discourse is dumb, but it's dumb, it just is. It's just dumb.
Speaker 1:Well, let's talk about something happier. Let's Ontario woman said she believes her Yorkshire Terrier, standing at just three inches tall and weighing less than a pound, might be the smallest dog in the world.
Speaker 2:That's a very dark view.
Speaker 1:That's a segue uh, let's see, that's happier, that's happier um yes, world record.
Speaker 1:This woman believes that she um, her dog lulu, kim passaro, uh believes her dog, lulu um is the smallest dog in the world, a three inch tall goodness yorkshire terrier and we'll. We'll put the link in the notes so you can see it is unbelievably cute. It's like a, it's like a toy. It's a toy. Now. This is so weird because I saw this picture and I'm like, oh, that's adorable. And yet here's where I'm confessing my hypocrisy. If you bring your dog on your lap when you drive and wherever you go in the world, there's something.
Speaker 1:We may not click.
Speaker 2:I don't do pets.
Speaker 1:So you know.
Speaker 2:I think animals are meant to be eaten, so it's my aggressive animal take.
Speaker 1:That's for the animals out there Also. We probably just lost half of our listeners.
Speaker 2:They're either, like I've said, more controversial things before.
Speaker 1:They're like listening with the pet on their lap. Y'all be all right she says the dog is probably the sauciest dog I've ever had. It has so much spug. But that's pretty cool world record got you when you're that tiny another world record. Uh, just to think of things that are happier and interesting outside of some of the things in the world. Woman hangs by her hair for 25 minutes to break the world record of how long you can hang by your hair.
Speaker 1:Wow All right, a professional circus performer who specializes in hair hanging broke the Guinness World Record. Specializes in hair hanging. Did you know that was a thing? No idea um well, she did, uh, and she suspended her locks for 25 minutes and 11.3 seconds. Woman, lila noon, 39 years old. Malcolm, you're, you're, you're getting up there, I'm not getting that far up there.
Speaker 2:I'm not getting that far up there.
Speaker 1:What this is stating is that there's still hope.
Speaker 2:There's still plenty of hope.
Speaker 1:There's still hope. Not for me.
Speaker 2:Nor for you. You're over the hill, bro. Actually, neither of us have hair.
Speaker 1:This isn't relevant to either of our lives. It took her two years of practice and endurance building to break the record. Here's my question for her. What happens when, in practice, you go and you fail and you get better, you get stronger. What does failure look like hanging by your hair? Is it just you tap out in pain, or is it the hair locks get ripped from your skull?
Speaker 2:Yeah, what is happening?
Speaker 1:Let's get good what is happening. Let's get good man. Let's get good. Malcolm can do you think? Do you think you could hang by your hair?
Speaker 2:nope, you're good by beard hair. No man, no man. I just also have like no desire to do that, to do that? That is a wild thing people just out here just trying to break records and you just look for what's the most obscure thing that I could do to break a record?
Speaker 1:Let me do that. Well, that was going to be my follow-up question, malcolm, if you were to break a world record, what is the thing that you would aim for? Would it be athletic? Would it be? No? Most languages. I'm curious how many languages someone knows.
Speaker 2:There's probably someone who can Google that. There are plenty of polyglots out there.
Speaker 1:We should have a show editor or whatever to go look that up for us, right now. Hey, Quinn, go do that.
Speaker 2:It's intentional for us to be as low budget as possible when we do this.
Speaker 1:If your name is Quinn and listening. Please become our show producer.
Speaker 2:For free, I mean, we're not paying anybody.
Speaker 1:We got peanut butter crackers. Uh, I don't know, man, you don't. You don't got one. Is there something that comes to your mind? No, I should have thought this, yeah that's what happens.
Speaker 2:I asked like that, just kind of out of the blue um, let's see, uh, world record man.
Speaker 1:I mean, this is like just top my head, like I, it'd be cool to be like the world's strongest man, you know like, like, pick up a, pick up a car, um, or a you know a truck, that'd be cool. Why not we're? You know what? Let's go with world's tallest man I'm in a mode.
Speaker 2:I'm in a mode now, like I said, because I'm about to preach revelation 22, because let's talk about the book of revelation uh world's longest sermon I know, no, no, I won't do that. But you know I, I, uh, you know I, I will have um significant strength and power in the new heavens and new earth. So I just have to wait. It's just a matter of waiting.
Speaker 1:That's the other thing, you just gotta wait just gotta wait, just wait for it okay, it's, it's, it's gonna be great okay, all right.
Speaker 1:Well, that seems like that would be a good time to transition. I like that transition music. All right, malcolm. Well, before we get to the new heavens, the new earth. Um, some of the questions that were submitted. I like that transition music. All right, malcolm. Well, before we get to the new heavens and new earth. Some of the questions that were submitted, people submitted via this app called Slido, and so people could vote up and down the questions, and so we're going to go in reverse order of the questions that people put in there and then we'll end with some of the ones that people wanted to know the most.
Speaker 2:I'll be brief.
Speaker 1:I'm going to be really brief in all of my answers so that you are succinct I can do it, I can do it see we'll see.
Speaker 1:All right, yes, no, no is the answer. Um, malcolm, won't the book of deeds be blank because of jesus's blood? So we're talking about in revelation 20. You see, the, the book of life, uh, and the, the, the book of deeds, of all that has been written down that someone has done. Won't those, won't that book be blank because jesus's blood has erased it all away? So, as far as the east is from the West, so far are your sins removed from me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a wonderful idea. Whoa, whoa, whoa, that was that was, that was aggressive.
Speaker 1:If you wrote that question cause, here's the other thing no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:Cause, cause, cause, here's, here's, here's, here's. I'm not going to do kind of extensive kind of speculation about this, because, because this, because this is one of, because this is one of the other things, like it's, it's very easy to get caught up in, uh, to get kind of caught up in in in extensive speculation. What, what Jesus is saying there, what Jesus is saying there, as he's saying throughout the book of revelation, is that what you do matters.
Speaker 2:The dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books revelation 2012 yep, what you do matters, jesus tell. Jesus says regularly like you're going to be judged by your, by your deeds. There's, there's, there's this assumption and I think it's it's particularly bled into uh, uh, prostitutes circles that, like you can, you can work you. You can work through an understanding of grace and obedience to the point that you get to the can work you. You can work through an understanding of grace and obedience to the point that you get to the point where you're like what you do doesn't matter and that is a failure.
Speaker 2:Uh, jesus is, jesus is concerned with you actually living a life of obedience now, so, so, so, so, what, so, and and and I'll say you know, at the end of Revelation 22, he says behold, I'm coming quickly and my and my reward is is is coming with me, that is, the wages, my salary is coming, is coming, is coming with me, which is to say that, like, what you do in this life does matter, right, um, now, now, now, now, yes, there is um. You know yet the goal when, when we, when we are, when we are united to christ, our, our ultimate kind of, our ultimate destination is is set um, but we also. But we also have to wholeheartedly affirm that what we do definitely does still matter. Those deeds don't even necessarily have to be sins that you've committed. It can also be the things that you've done in the Lord.
Speaker 1:So here's the not a counter view, but I'm curious what you thought you think of this Cause after we I had preached this, I didn't preach revelation 20. You can go back and listen to it, and I basically argued that that you know what we do matters that those deeds are still there though there are. They are still listed in the book of life. We had some people come up and ask me what do you think about the idea of understanding this as you know, the judgment seat is not the judgment seat where we sit and God judges us.
Speaker 1:It's the Bema seat Bema, another word for judgment, and that seat is the one where it's this raised platform that athletes sit on for the Olympic Games. And so you're getting judged on your good deeds, and so you're getting crowned with many crowns, but then, revelation 4, we end up putting those crowns at Jesus' feet. So, yes, and so that's the judgment. What do you think about that interpretation of that?
Speaker 2:It's possible. It's also possible because this is also true that if you are not joined to Christ, then you are judged on your own, then you're judged on your own, and so then the future that you face is one where, okay, like, okay, you used, you spent your life, uh, trying to reach the standard of holiness. Here's what that leads uh to the lake of fire. Um, then, but for but for the but for the believer. Um, but for the but for the but for the believer. What you do, what you do in what you do in christ, those are, those are deeds that actually last into it, actually last into into eternity.
Speaker 1:Um yeah, that's where I was like. I want that bema seat idea to be true, um, and there might be a still could be an element of truth to it. But, given that context of revelation 20 here, with these, these two things, as you just mentioned, you know, with the, the, uh, the things recorded in there, the sea gave up the dead that were in it, and then each person was judged according to what they had done, and then death and haze were thrown into the lake of fire. Um, and so it's kind of like saying these, these judgments have implications, um, and if your name is not written in the book of life, you are now judged based on that, those deeds. The real, I think, it's whether you are written in the book of life or not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the one thing that matters.
Speaker 1:It's your eternal question, your destination, but still what you do matters, whether you are eternally destined for heaven or eternally destined, we don't say destined for hell, but whether your name is written in the book of life or not, is, is, is all, is all it matters for in terms of destination, but still what we do matters, regardless of that eternal destination yeah and so I think, um, that's how I would.
Speaker 1:I would say, no, the book of deeds is not blank. So that was a, not a short answer. Um, that's okay, we're on a podcast I mean it's better than. It's better than me just saying no I'm glad you didn't do that, um all right, all right, I'll be sure I'll be.
Speaker 2:I'll be sure in the future I'll put it.
Speaker 1:I'll put a timer 30 seconds, 30 seconds 30 seconds for what is wrong with having themillennium view if you still believe that Jesus will return and defeat evil? Yes, next question.
Speaker 2:This is to you, because you said something was wrong with this.
Speaker 1:So in the sermon we described the four main views of the millennium. You have the pre-millennial, and we don't have to go into those right now. You have the post-millennial, and we don't have to go into those right now. You have the post-millennial and you have amillennial. And then I said there's also the pan-millennial view. That is basically it all pans out in the end.
Speaker 1:And so this questioner is asking what's wrong with the pan-millennium view? And I don't think it's wrong to have the pan-millenn view. They're just saying like, hey, it's, it's all going to work out in the end. What I said in the sermon, um, and what I I still hold to right now, is, yes, it all, it all will work out in the end. Jesus is going to come back and he's going to redeem and he's going to save and he's going to judge. Right, like all these things are absolutely right, um, it's.
Speaker 1:But I think it's almost like saying, like, what's wrong with me not reading the book of Psalms? You don't have to read the book of Psalms for a full life. There's some beautiful things in there that I think you would want to enjoy. And so I think the same thing is true with this as saying, like the Pamillennial view of like it's all going to work out, absolutely Amen, hallelujah.
Speaker 1:But I think we miss out on possibly looking into revelation 20 and getting the benefits of what actually investigating what we think about this, because what we believe about the end is going to influence how we live now. So if we, even if you say I'm a pan-millennial, you probably have other elements infusing what you believe about what's going to happen at the end, because you might be like I'm living in a society that seems to think that it's all going to get worse and worse and worse before Jesus comes back. That's actually a particular view of the millennium Is it going to get worse and worse and worse, or is it going to get better and better and better? So I think it matters for us to look at those things.
Speaker 2:So one of the things you're pointing to is that you know there's, we don't want to go the way of apathy. We also don't want to go the way of, uh, morbid, morbid fascination, uh, and most people tend toward the morbid fascination, right. So as a response, it can seem like you go to apathy. What? What shifted my, what shifted me theologically, in thinking about that text? Because I I agree with balkum in saying that, uh, that the primary purpose of that chapter is to um is to narrate the victory of the of the martyrs the vindication of the martyrs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, but the whole thing's getting worse thing. Getting things get a better thing. My, my paradigm for that is actually the uh, the parable of the wheat and the tares. So my expectation because of that text is, if we're going to ask the question of, like, how are things going to look before Jesus comes back, okay, well, I'll ask Jesus when he's answering that question. And basically, both the wheat and the tares are going to grow together until the time of the harvest comes, and he does that and he does that work of separation, and so I'm going to expect evil to get worse. I'm going to also expect the church to continue in the midst of it and then, at the end of that time, I'm going to expect the Lord to set those things right. So all that then makes me I mean you know the Lord to set those things right. So all that then makes me I mean, you know, so I'll be the pan-millennial of the two of us.
Speaker 1:I'm about to ask. So which view do you lean into? Not post, because post-millennial things are getting better.
Speaker 2:It's technically amillennial, if you're asking me when the millennium is, oh, interesting. So not pan-millennial, but I don't care To the point about like, I don't like. It's one of these questions that, like that I don't care to answer because I don't think it's the I don't think it's the purpose of the text to ask that question of like. When is the like, that like? That question is not a question.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that the text is meant to jesus is very explicit in Acts 1 that you will not know. Yeah, you're not going to know. It's very clear.
Speaker 2:It's like thinking about the book of Revelation as a whole. What's important about that is not when. Jesus said this is what's about to happen, but he's also narrating to these people what's going on now. So do you think it's sinful?
Speaker 1:to have that morbid fascination morbid fascination with, with the end times uh, I'm like I'm approaching.
Speaker 2:I'm kind of approaching that position, yeah, because I'm thinking about the end of revelation 22 and talking about adding and taking away from this book of prophecy and there's a lot of which is all about the canon and whether we can add no.
Speaker 1:No, it's like that's what john was thinking about. Yeah, uh-huh.
Speaker 2:No, it's very specifically about the book of revelation oh and, and, and. There's a lot of like. There's just a lot of adding. There's just a lot of adding going on. There's a lot of people doing a whole lot of speculation about stuff.
Speaker 2:That is not the concern. It's not the concern of the text, and most of it is because I think most of it is because people are operating in contexts that are so foreign to the context of the book of revelation that people are like I don't know how this could possibly make sense. So let me make stuff up so that this makes sense for me, as opposed to thinking about okay, what, what, what, what, what would this mean to a people who are persecuted by an empire that looks really, really big? They're in a situation where evil looks really really bad, yep, and where it and, and, and, and, and and. One of the primary and I I'm going to keep saying this whenever we talk about the book of revelation the primary messages of the book is that things are actually worse than they look, but God is still greater than those things Some Christian authors wrote about their physical disabilities remaining in eternity, since the wounds of Jesus are still present on his body.
Speaker 1:Can this be true? Yes, it can.
Speaker 2:It's not a must it can. Yeah, I mean, we don't know.
Speaker 1:We know there's no mourning and there's no pain and there's no tears, and so if that physical disability causes those things, I would lean into that.
Speaker 2:That's not going to be a thing.
Speaker 1:But, yes, jesus did have scars, but they were healed scars, and this is where I think the, the imagery of the kintsugi um is a beautiful thing, of the use in the japanese um art form of putting gold in the pottery um, and so jesus's wounds are, are healed over, and so you see the story of what he, what it cost him, in the story it tells, which is beautiful um, but does that mean all scars will continue into the new heavens, the new earth?
Speaker 1:I don't know yeah, we are going off of what we see from a resurrected body there and our best guess we only know one of them so, but that one did fly through walls we say we haven't seen it, but we yeah, that one did walk through walls so we? We know that's that's cool. That's what we're gonna do. Um it also flew up into heaven. So we have flight powers of flight. Um, what else do you think we'll have with our new bodies?
Speaker 2:um, oh man this is I mean this is the point of your world record.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the strongest person.
Speaker 2:And, as I'm doing, this sermon, it's just, it is a picture of a future in which everything you like, everything that you want, I mean the Lord will provide literally everything that you, literally everything that you want. Lord will provide literally everything that you, literally everything that you want like. It's even the things that like the things that now manifest themselves in sinful desires, because we're after, because we're after things that are not bad things, but we seek after them in the wrong, in the, in the wrong way, or seek to be fulfilled, and like our, our quest for significance, for value, for influence for all, like all those kinds of things. None of those things are bad, yeah, and god.
Speaker 1:And god has essentially told us I'm actually, I'm in, in your union, with me, like I'm actually going to give you all that stuff, you know and more, and I think and me, part of this is I, I think we're, we're thinking about the resurrection as like a, a better version of our body now yeah it's different, but it also is fundamentally different in some important way we who are thinking it are alive, yeah, but I mean thinking about bodies that have been in the grave for centuries and are are just dust, or if you've, um, you've been cremated, like, thinking about like that coming to life, there is a whole new creation happening.
Speaker 1:Like it is, it's not just like oh good, my, my shoulder pain's gone or my dislocated clavicle is gone, um, please lord, um, it's all created new and I think it's it'll be similar, and this is what we talk about with all things new, things like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I think it's it'll be similar, and this is what we talk about with all things, new things like that, yeah, but I think it's it we have to be thinking of like it is. It is a full recreation, um, in that regard. So, um, all right, I think I think we hit that uh gonna keep moving us if we are to stay on earth and the lord makes earth a new heaven, how do we, as christians, protect and love earth without becoming focused on worldly goods? I think that's the constant struggle of seeing ourselves as being, yes, this world. We do want to care about this because God is making all things new. It's that renewed. We talked about the distinction between the nios and kynos, and that's where John uses kynos, there that it's being remade, and that's where John uses kynos, there that it's being remade. And so he's reforming this world to make it ready for the new heavens and new earth. And so we should care about it, we should recycle, we should.
Speaker 2:you know all of these things and care about this world. Yeah, I wonder what the risk, I wonder what the. I wonder what this person feels like the risk is.
Speaker 1:On focusing on worldly goods.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So because you know, if your priority is to love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and to love your neighbor as yourself, if your priority is to love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and to love your neighbor as yourself, and um, and the priority is okay. Look when I, when I look at God's creation, it is, I fundamentally see it as God's creation and so, as a as a like, as a response, I'm going to treat it with that appropriate reverence and and respect and things like that. It cuts off that like, cuts off that risk like that, like that, like that priority structure has to be present, that, that, that reason for you doing those things yeah, has to be, has to be, has to be present I saw their question as really kind of a question about making an idol of things and
Speaker 1:that's where it's like yeah, you can make anything that's good into, uh, into an ultimate thing, and that's what an idol is. And so you can make the Bible into an idol. Sure, you can make the church, or you can make a person, or whatever, like good things. And so I think there there is a. I think it's a constant struggle that Christians will deal with Um, but deal with um. But I don't think inherent in wanting to care for this world. It takes our mind off of the most important thing, and I think that's what god is trying to do. It's it's remaking the garden. That's what he gave us, you know, dominion um over, and that's what we were doing now.
Speaker 2:So I mean my thing. One of the look, quite, quite frankly, a telltale sign of something becoming an idol for you is, uh is how much it stresses you out. Because, because, because, if it's something that, if it's something that creates that significant of an emotional and spiritual burden for you, it indicates that it is not something that you ultimately have placed into the hand of the hands of the lord. I think about this in the way that we think about our kids. Some of us like as stressful as the things that our kids might do are yeah our kids are ultimately in the hands of the.
Speaker 2:They're ultimately in the hands of the lord, like they're other people. Like. Our kids are other people, like hands of the. They're ultimately in the hands of the Lord, like they're other people. Like our kids are other people, like they have their own minds and spirits and stuff. And as parents like well, well, like as parents, like I just want, I just want my kids to do what I say, to do what I say and mine do no-transcript.
Speaker 2:Say it again. And now you've got some other. Now you've got another person who you're like. This person really should do all the things that I tell them to do, and they don't, and they don't, and they don't and they don't and they don't, and they don't Ever, they don't ever. But I think some parents are really, really stressed out because they've also made idols of their children.
Speaker 1:That's a little spicy Now that we all feel pretty good about ourselves.
Speaker 2:That was a little spicy now that we all feel uh yeah, pretty good about ourselves. It's a little spicy intervention for the, for the afternoon.
Speaker 1:Let's go back. Let's go back to the. Okay, all right let's do something different um, what do you think is the most dangerous misinterpretation of this text? This question was actually your question texted to me that I submitted and it got boosted a couple times on there, nice. So Malcolm asked me this before I preached the sermon what do you think is the most dangerous misinterpretation of this text?
Speaker 2:Which text are we talking about? Revelation 20. Okay, so we're talking specifically about Revelation 20.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so all these questions are kind of coming right after that sermon, so they're kind of leaning there. We should have just. I mean, we try to encourage people if they're about Revelation in general or afterlife. But my answer to that at the time was a leaning into either an over-realized eschatology or an under-realized one, Meaning with the idea of the millennium and the millennial kingdom, of people who are so looking forward to it, trying to make it happen, trying to bring the utopia heaven here on earth in the form of the seven mountain mandate, and this like let's Christianize this nation, or the under-realized one of being like it's all going to burn anyways, and why do we care? Which one do you think is? I think these are polar ends of the thing and they're going. Do you want to die by shot in the head or by being hung? And it's like? Which one's worse, I don't know they. They seem to both end result in death. So I don't know.
Speaker 1:I feel like this is the, this is the and I'm not trying to blanket statement of these views of end times. But if you are a pre-millennial, you typically think things are getting worse and worse and worse, and so let's just pull the eject lever and get out of here. If you're a post-millennial, you think things are going to get better and better and you want to instill that, and so the pre-millennial and post-millennial views are the two polar ends of this. Um, and that's where I'm like I disagree with both of those strongly, uh. And so if you're a listener and you're like, no, I'm still pretty pre-millennial or I'm still post-millennial, I'd love to engage with you, but I I don't. I think we would disagree. So, yes, that's my most dangerous misinterpretation of this text. Malcolm, you, you remember what you wrote about that? Did I write something? I said, yeah. How would you answer? Oh, did I answer it? Do I have something? You did?
Speaker 2:What did I say? What did I say? Let's see if.
Speaker 1:I say the same thing If it matches up. No, me too.
Speaker 2:No, say what did I say?
Speaker 1:You said American Christians focusing on the reigning, without the overarching context and requirements of suffering.
Speaker 2:Yes, that is what I said. Is that what you would still say? Yeah, I still I isolated, I mean it's, it's, it's, I think, it's, I think the primary issue with, uh, broad misinterpretation of the book as a whole.
Speaker 2:This is a good reminder for when I preach on Sunday that I should remember that I said that um some of the stuff I say is pretty good you know, it's all right, um so, but that the whole, like people, continually think and this is the temptation that the devil offers to Christ in the wilderness it's you can have all this stuff and you don't have to suffer to get it. And that is what a lot of American Christians would like to think that you can get Christ without going the way of Christ. And what Paul says this is in Romans 8, that we are heirs with God and co-heirs with Christ if we also share with Christ in his suffering, so that we can share with him in his glory share it share with christ in his suffering so that we can share with him in his glory.
Speaker 2:And what the whole thing about revelation is that like these are, these are the, these are the, these are, these are these. These are the martyrs who end up enjoying these blessings. These are those who do not love their lives so much as they would shrink, shrink, shrink from death. Like those. Like those are the. Those are the folks we're talking about. We're not talking about the folks who cozy up to empire because it's more comfortable. We're not talking about the folks who cozy up to empire because it's more comfortable. We're not talking about the folks who cozy up to empire because they'll make more money and get more influence that way. We're talking about the folks who are insistent about being the people of God in the midst of the kings of the world, however risky that is, because you're going up against beasts and great prostitutes and stuff and great prostitutes and stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel like it's never said in all of the discussions about millennium of whether it's Christ returns before or after, is who is reigning and, as you just emphasized here, it's the martyrs. Verse 20, chapter 20, verse four. It says and I saw the thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge, and I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. This is the millennium, the thousand years. And who is reigning with Christ? Martyrs, millennium, the thousand years. And who is reigning with christ? Martyrs. And so any talk of like, try to like go the route of jesus without the path of jesus, of suffering it, just it misses that completely. Yeah, yeah, I think that that that that is a critical way to lens, to be able to see through this here.
Speaker 2:Thanks, thanks, past Malcolm.
Speaker 1:You're welcome.
Speaker 2:Is that how I sound?
Speaker 1:The ghost of Christmas past. All right, Um, um, here's a good one. Uh, when the book talks about those who are asleep what word is used for sleep. Are all my loved ones in suspended animation, or are they already with Christ?
Speaker 2:Yep the old, the old intermediate state question.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, uh, I have, I could look it up. Do you have your Greek over there?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Um, you can look up what it talks about when asleep, and we're thinking 1 Thessalonians 4, I believe. But while you pull that up, that phrase of those who fall asleep is just an idiom for those who are dead. It's just a. It's a kind way, as we talk about someone who has died and those who have passed, those who've fallen asleep, and so it's just a kind of a softer way of referring to that, and so, no, no, no one is suspended in animation for this.
Speaker 2:Jesus does that when he's talking about, when he's, when he's waiting, and he's waiting for Lazarus to die with his disciples, and he tells them that Lazarus has fallen asleep. And they're like what he's like. Lazarus is dead.
Speaker 1:Just go wake him up.
Speaker 2:Just by the way, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so the beautiful thing of scripture here is we get a picture of what happens when someone does pass. I mean, you can think of Luke 23, 43,. Jesus tells the robber on the cross next to him that when you die, like he says truly, I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise. And so there is something that happens, that at our death, that we are instantly in the presence of the Lord. And so I think one of the treasures of a confessional church, and one of the reasons we are a confessional church, is that it binds us to some of the great treasures that the church has espoused and thought through throughout the history.
Speaker 1:And so Westminster Shorter Catechism, question 37, says what benefits do believers receive from Christ at death? And the answer it gives is the souls of believers are, at their death, made perfect in holiness and do immediately pass into glory, and their bodies, being still united to Christ, do rest in their graves until the resurrection. And really, like one sentence, it summarizes such a deep theological understanding of what happens that I think everyone is wondering, and this is one of the reasons I encourage our families to work through the Shorter Catechisms at home and thinking about these things. That is such a helpful way to think about this, but it's rooted in Scripture of. You know truly you'd be with me in paradise, and so you immediately pass into glory. And so if you have lost a loved one, you know that if, if they were in Christ and they are in they're in Christ presence right now. Right, what are you gonna say, malcolm?
Speaker 2:I don't think I was gonna say anything. Koima'o is the word. It just means to fall asleep or to sleep, and it also means idiomatically to die. Yeah, um, but, uh, but yeah, but there are also. But there are stages, like I mean, we spend a lot of, I think, a lot of thought and energy talking, think, thinking about, I mean, the intermediate state. But it's an intermediate state like the alt, the ultimate, and this is one of the things that we get from, especially from from Revelation. It's either resurrected body in the lake of fire, resurrected body in the new heavens and new earth, like those are the, those are the ultimate destinations. We won't have the argument about annihilationism right here, but stay tuned. Resurrected body in the lake of fire, resurrected body in the new heavens and new earth right here, stay tuned.
Speaker 1:Resurrected body in the lake of fire resurrected body in the new heavens and new earth. The next question and we can move fast on this one, unless you want to go deeper onto it Could you talk about some of the historicity of some of these theological perspectives of the millennium? The vocabulary is mostly new, but which of these has a longer history? And so just generally and Malcolm, you can correct me the premill view yes, there was early church fathers that held a. From some of their writings it seemed like a prem-mill view. So Papias Justin Martyr had this view early on. It declined when Augustine came on the scene, and so from the fourth fifth century on though, it was the a-mill view, and so for the majority of church history it's been this a-millennial view, meaning that there is not going to be a physical reign of Christ, that when Christ died and was resurrected he instituted his millennial kingdom. Now it's the now and not yet view, and so that's people like Augustine.
Speaker 1:the Catholic church holds it, eastern church holds that view. The Reformed church holds that view. View, the Reformed church holds that view. So that's the predominant view. It's only been as of late in the 19th, 20th century that we've seen a resurgence in the pre-mill view, and we can talk a whole podcast of why that was that way. The post-mill view is one that you typically see. That happens in the church when it's in times of success, like when you're the culture, the church seems to be doing well. And so, like the time of the puritans, when it seemed like they were taking over america, or it seemed like the church was growing and it was just ever positive view of the the how the world was going to be, um, you could say, well, that's for the puritans, but what about certain people in amer America? At that moment, exactly? And so there was this positive time. But then, once World War I hit, that view quickly died down, and so that's kind of an overarching view. Do you have any?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean. So the idea that you know, the idea that there would be like multiple returns of, like, multiple returns of jesus, like that, that was something which is one way that you can interpret the pre-millennial view, that he returns and does like a, like semi full reign and then like, does it again and does it for, like that, that is essentially soundly rejected by the church in the first few centuries. Yeah, uh, even though you have, even though you have, you have individuals in the first few centuries who make that argument, um, and it's institutionally, the church is like no. Like when he comes back, like that's, that's it, um, and and there may be other details and stuff that we don't, we don't know but like there aren't going to be like three, three returns, like it's just no. Like when he comes back, that's it, um and so, uh, but, but, yeah, I mean, but when you?
Speaker 2:But my thing is like also, though, like when you, when you get a argue for that theologically and you can look at revelation and be like, oh, maybe this rain thing is happening now, and it's like just stop it, just stop it, stop it, stop it, wait, like that. That's the other thing. I need the people of god to wait. Wait for Jesus. Don't settle for all these other little things, all these other little things that seem shiny and stuff. Wait for Jesus. Keep your eyes fixed on the Lord. That's one of the purposes of the book of Revelation 2 is that at the end, the spirit and the bride say come. We are supposed to be the people who say come Lord Jesus, come Lord Jesus, amen.
Speaker 1:Amen, jesus, amen, the one who matters. Um, all right, we're now getting to the two of the most, uh, most requested questions. All right, all right, you ready 10 minutes. Oh you, what? You telling me these things? For now, I know, while we're alive, I know, oh goodness, I'm sorry, okay, okay, your listener, come on, come on, what happens, I know.
Speaker 2:Tell malcolm to come on y'all are probably used to like 30 and 40 minute podcasts and, like we, regularly go like an hour and a half, so exactly it's our thing.
Speaker 1:It's our thing, it's our brand. All right, how does matthew 24, verses 41, uh, 40 through 41 square with your view of the rapture, um and uh. We'll read that in a second Um, uh, as well as the. There was another question that was similar to that one uh, luke 21, um, which is about the similar thing. Yeah, jesus does a lot of foretelling of the future. Can you help us make sense of those passages? So, in the sermon I preached again, uh, sermon I preached again. We'll link that.
Speaker 1:I went into a little diatribe on the word rapture. It's never seen in the book of Revelation, which seems to be an odd thing. If you're thinking about the end times, if you believe that the rapture is this taking up of people out from earth before Jesus comes, before Jesus comes back, um and so, which is a pre millennial view, um, and if you've been raised on the left behind books and things like that, the rapture is almost um, it's almost a, a certainty that, as if, if you don't believe that, you may not believe that there were um, you know the resurrection, like it's, like it's almost, feels like it's that part of the story. But the two passages that people point to is 1 Thessalonians 4. And I spent a fair amount of time in the sermon kind of describing why I think that is a wrong view of what the rapture is, and so again, go back and listen to that, since we only have 10 minutes over here. But the question then is, if that's not speaking of a rapture, of God taking people out of this earth, then what do we do with other passages where people are seemingly taken and some are left behind? And so Matthew 24 is another passage that people look to which sounds like that is happening there. And so Matthew 24, verse 40 and 41, where it says two men will be in the field and one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill, one will be taken and the other left. And so it sounds like you're talking about the rapture happening, because it also seems like Jesus is talking about the end times. But if you like everything else in the Bible, we highly encourage you when there's complicated verses and really just in general, look at the context.
Speaker 1:What is happening in Matthew 24? It's the Jesus and his disciples are walking away from the temple and they're all describing how beautiful it is. And Jesus is like do you see all these things? And truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left, on another, everyone will be thrown down, he's like. So you see that beautiful temple, it's all coming down and they're like what? And so then he starts talking about the destruction of the temple and they are just shocked at what that, what that looks like, and then they're saying wait, wait, wait, what? But then it seems like he's now confusing the destruction of the temple with the, the end, with his return, the second return of Christ.
Speaker 1:And this is where people are going like okay, so then what is happening in verse 40, where it talks about someone will be taken, someone will be taken, someone will be left, regardless of your view of what's happening and what many believe happens in AD 70, when the temple is destroyed. He now comes into this section here where two men will be in the field one will be taken, the other left. But it's in this passage, in the greater context of that one is referring to Noah and the flood. And so verse 37, as it was in the days of Noah, so will be at the coming of the Son of man, for in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving to marriage up to the day of Noah entered the ark and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. This is how it will be at the coming of the Son of the man. And so, in in this context, being taken means being taken by the flood, means being destroyed, means being killed, and being left behind is actually a good thing, which is very different from our view of the left behind series and the view of the rapture.
Speaker 1:And if you go to the luke version of this, where is that? That's in Luke 17. Let me pull over that real quick. So same thing, I tell you, luke 17, 34. I tell you, uh, luke 17, 34. Um, I tell you, on that night, two people will be in one bed. One will be taking the other left. Two women will be grinding grain, the other will be taken the other left.
Speaker 1:And the disciples asked the question where, lord? Where will they be taken? And he says he replied where there is a dead body and the vultures will gather and so taken in this sense is not the good thing, it's not a rapture to heaven, away from a earth that is about to burn up. It is the opposite. It's taken in the destructive sense. And so all of this to say, I think the rapture is some of the flimsiest theological material to stand on. If you hold it, we're not going to be at odds, we could still hang out. But I just would say, is there a reason you are still gripping to it so tightly after kind of looking at these passages in that context?
Speaker 2:Here's the main pastoral issue with the rapture. It assumes that we serve a who um. When he sees his people in suffering, that his first, that his first priority is to pull them out of it.
Speaker 1:So it the like the comfort and he didn't do that for all the christians that are enduring the persecution for the last 2 000.
Speaker 2:He didn't do it to Jesus, and so and so and so and so, what? So there's but there, but there's this assumption that the Lord's going to pull us out before things get too bad, and that is that is pastorally and theologically out of step with the entirety of the new Testament. The Christian is the person who is united to Christ, and what that means is that in this life, until our final redemption, the expectation is that the way of Christ is going to be the way of the cross. And whenever we treat the Christian life as something that is not that, as something that is not something where I am going to need to depend on the Holy Spirit for every moment of this life, that the Lord would shape me into the image of his son If that is not what drives me every single moment of my life. And there are these other things where you're like oh well, things might be bad, but the Lord will pull me out before things get too bad. That's not.
Speaker 2:It in some ways undermines the very core of the gospel, Like these are, like the stakes of these kinds of conversations are very, very, very high and now, as I think about it more, I actually get more and more frustrated with the misuse of this text. Get more and more frustrated with the misuse of this text because the because the things that orient the priorities of the people of god away from what it looks like to be united with christ, particularly in his suffering, especially in political context where people are like well, the main thing that we need to do is ingratiate ourselves to political power like it's just so foreign. It's just so foreign to the new test.
Speaker 1:But how could all these Christians be wrong? Malcolm?
Speaker 2:that's very easy for a lot of people to be wrong.
Speaker 1:No, no, we have, we have a whole God writing every man a liar. You've read. You've read all of the left behind.
Speaker 2:I did, I did, and they're fun fiction.
Speaker 1:And that's what's hard is. It has been so approved of by the wider church community that millions of dollars behind it, it feels like you're going against scripture when you go. Wait, this is all standing on, a couple verses that are not a really strong trellis to be standing on. So, um, hey, there's two more questions we don't have time for um, the two most um um important questions. Apparently we are saving and, uh, I'll tease those another episode I'll tease those.
Speaker 1:Uh. Will those names that were not written in the book of life ever have an opportunity to be redeemed? No and escape the lake of fire.
Speaker 2:I can answer that no we might disagree on that.
Speaker 1:Um, um, we're gonna have some fun with that one. Um, and then the next. Uh, this one wasn't actually submitted. It was a, a, a, a question that was asked in the midst of the meeting. Um, uh, the. The Q and a was does the book of revelation or the Bible at large command us to give special treatment to Jewish people? Okay, so, um, we will save those questions for another time, that I think both those can have some uh big implications, and so we will give them the time they deserve.
Speaker 1:Um, dear listener, thank you so much. We love talking with you, thinking about deep things like the book of revelation, life after death with you, as well as silly things like cute little three inch tall dogs. Uh, if you have uh random stories like that you want to send to us, please do so. Um, or if you have bigger topics that you would like to us to address, hit the, send us a question button. Um, but, as always, this is all free. Um, right here at the center of the Theology in Pieces headquarters in Waco, texas. We do it out of love for you. But if you did like this, if you do think this is helpful, would you like it, rate it, review it and share it with a friend. That is always really one way to give back to the work we do here. Malcolm, always a pleasure, always Bye y'all.