Cold Open And Big Question

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Welcome to Theology of Beasts, where we hope to build new theology of the church of the world where somebody has chatted pieces. And yes, I'm still going solo, Slim as your host, uh, because Malcolm is continuing on this epic sabbatical. I mean, come on, get together. No, no, I don't joking. We're very happy for him to take the sabbatical, and we look forward to him coming back next week, actually, as uh uh for our church. Uh we'll see when the next time he comes on on the podcast. But today, we have the question that's burning in the hearts of your heart and soul, and it is the question: is James Tallarico the Antichrist? And is Ken Paxton Armageddon? That's where we're at. It's the only two options in Texas: the Antichrist or the end of the world. So we hope to answer all those questions for you very soon. Uh we will give you complete knowledge on where

Quick Correction And Listener Feedback

SPEAKER_00 1:20

to place your votes. Um, but hey, uh, some housekeeping. Last week I I I I done messed up. Last week I uh we had the or two weeks ago or so, um, had the podcast and referenced Chris Farley. And in it I mentioned, uh, I think I said something along the lines that he uh had taken his own life. Um you could argue that that's what he did by the amount of drugs he put in his system, but he cle he he OD'd, and I want to make sure I got that right with something as serious as that. But um, please forgive me. Uh thank you for listeners for those who uh caught that and let me know. Uh that as actually not accurate. Um, but appreciate for all the the communication and uh the ways you guys are are listening in. So thank you. Um so if you have been listening, you've been enjoying it, please continue to email. If you have questions for us, please continue to uh send those in. You can hit the the send us a question button, or you can email hello at theologypieces.com. Uh that's a great way for us to stay connected.

Youth Camp Highs And Lows

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Um man, it's been a a busy, busy summer. I don't know what y'all. Every summer feels busy, but I think as my kids get older, things get busier. May felt just like a whirlwind. I can't believe we're already through June. Um goodness gracious. Uh, we just took our uh our youth as a church to uh Mo Ranch, uh, which was a a fun trip. It's outside of San Antonio in Kerrville, Texas. And if you recall, a year ago is uh that's the location where the uh the flooding hit, um, and it took the life of of uh many you know little little little children and things like that. And there was uh the family that we we know who lost their daughter to that, and it's just horrific. Um but um this this camp was in a um more uh strategic spot so that the the flooding wouldn't hit, but there's some big donor that around there that um invested and put a bunch of uh safety protocols into all the camps that are in that area. Um, anyways, we took our youth out there and it was um it was a good time. Um we had a lot of fun. One thing that was interesting, um, our our camp speaker, our our very first night, I I wrote I wrote home to the parents because I was just like, man, this is amazing. I don't know about you if you ever went to camp growing up. Uh I went to a few as a as a kid and the you know, it was the the typical um, I don't know if it's called mega church um camp experience, but it was definitely building the whole week, building to have you make a decision and you know, playing just as I am uh of some sort on a Thursday night to give your life to Christ, that you come back a changed person on Friday. And, you know, making a decision is important. Uh, we need to make a decision. You make a decision to to vote, you make a decision to if you're gonna marry someone, if you can make a decision to to live and take a job, whatever it is. Like making decisions are important. But it just felt very transactional, almost, almost, can I say dare? I say manipulative. Um, and you know, this is theology in pieces, and I think there are many in our um listeners who kind of come at this just a little, just a tad bit more skeptical around these um these types of camps. And so when we had our camp experience with the youth, and the main speaker was an older Mexican lady uh who spoke broken English uh that uh gave her life to immigration ministry. I was like, this is incredible. Like, this is what our kids are learning. And the first night, like we were all just like blown away. It was it was so so good, but also just so refreshing and just very different uh from leaders, but also the youth really resonated with her. And you know, it just sucked. Um, because it was so good the first night, and then it just kind of all went downhill after that. Um, so the the theology was a little odd near near the end. Uh, there was some uh, you know, this is a woman preacher, but she was she kind of had some sexism in some of the things she said, and it was like, hey, this is just for the boys, and had this moment where she, you know, said something along the lines of, you know, boys, you can be heads of state, but women you can serve. And it was like, stop, why? Um, and you know, all of that just it it it is is background fodder conversation for um the conversation we're gonna have a little bit later is is James Talarico the Antichrist?

Disagreement Without Exile

SPEAKER_00 6:10

Um, is Ken Paxton Armageddon? Um and I ask those questions kind of you know, tongue in cheek, because I want to ask the question, um, you know, what do we do when we find another Christian who we disagree with? Are they completely anathema? Um is it is the theology really that important? Um or is it something that we you know look past? Um and if it's that important, which I agree theology is is very important, then if someone's off, do we we condemn them in that in such a way? Um so that's kind of the the bigger conversation I want to have under the umbrella of the the is James Talarico Antichrist. Um also where we're at as a as a as a country, we are more importantly, the most important thing that's happening right now is the World Cup. And I mentioned a little bit on the the last episode. Man, my family is loving it. Uh currently, right now, France is taking on Morocco, so you know when we're recording it. Um, and we're in the second half and it's still zero-zero. And if you're not a a soccer fan, I remember I used to see zero zero and I'm like, boring. Um, but it's kind of like a lot of things. Once you start to get to understand the strategy and the understanding, you know, how things work and whatnot, you start to go and like it's less about the offense, it's more about like the solid defense or whatnot. You can kind of get a feel for the ebbs and flows. So uh that is happening actively while we're recording this podcast. So I'll make sure I keep you updated on what happens there because I know this is this podcast is keeping you in the loop on World Cup scores and things like

Talarico Versus Paxton And Tribal Politics

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that. Um but the the reason we we titled this episode is James Talerico the Antichrist, is because if you're from Texas, uh you you have heard that uh Talerico uh won the um the bid for the uh Democratic uh candidate for senator in Texas. Uh he beat out um Jasmine Crockett, and he is now officially going against Ken Paxton. And these are just two diametrically opposed human beings. Just diametrically opposed. So it's it's are you on team red, team blue? You know, which jersey are you gonna wear? And honestly, that seems to be all our politics is are you wearing my jersey or not? Do you root for my country or not? And you know, it's one thing to watch the World Cup and say, no, I root for this country. It's another when you live in the state and people are trying to um court your vote and say, no, this is actually important, and you have neighbors who say, no, I wear a different jersey than you, you know, it's it's a little bit different. And yet we act like it is all about jerseys. And so um Jasmine Crockett, um, you know, a little more fire, uh fiery um in her condemnation of you know Trump. And I think James Taler is also, you know, condemns a lot of things that happen Trump does, um, but she's more of a you know, kind of let me uh burn it, uh burn it down um mindset. And Talk is a little more moderate in uh in his verbiage. And I would I'm guessing if you were more of a conservative, you would say he's not moderate, but um in his verbiage, he's that way. And then you have Ken Paxton, who was I mean, he's got so many flaws. Um, I mean, he just is just dripping with flaws. Um, he was indicted in 2015 on three felony counts for securities fraud. So he's a he fraud, which just leads to corruption, which is just right in line with where our government is, is that if you can pay me off, then I will do something for you. Um, he's been impeached by his own party, by the Republicans House in Texas. Like your own party, which never goes against you itself, impeaches you. Um he is, I think, currently cheating on his spouse, um, and is had how many affairs? There's just there's so much out there that's just Ken Paxton is one of the lowest of low. Um, and yet he's a Baylor grad. So, you know, Baylor brought him here for the, or at least uh not Baylor, uh the uh turning point USA um Baylor chapter brought him here to take place of uh a speaker who dropped out that I'm I'm I'm forgetting now, that might have been uh Donald Trump Jr. Um, you know, and so as long as you're part of my team, really you can do whatever you want. But here's the odd thing is when if you're not a part of my team, and if you do something or say something that's out of line, then it's not just that you're out of line, you're the devil. You're the devil. And James Salarico um made made a lot of uh noise uh a year ago or so. He went on the Joe Rogan podcast, and it just it it blew up because um, you know, I I had not known who he was, I knew he was someone running. Um, but he the way he engaged with Rogan um was just and the the way he gave he gave his answers was just so um kind and matter of a fact. Um, but the another reason it blew up was one, because Joe Rogan said, you should run for president, right? That's um Tal Rico, a Democrat, and Rogan seems to be leaning Republican um to tell um Joe or to tell James to run for president. It was was was kind of a big deal. Um, but also some of the reasons it became a big deal is because you know, Rogan asked him some good questions along the lines of, you know, how can you um how can you believe um in something like mean, you know, pro-choice, uh, given your biblical, you know, Tal Rico um is a seminary student. Um is a he he wears his faith on his uh sleeves. He he's he's open about that. And how can you be pro-choice um in this mindset? And how can you know so he has some asked him some decent questions, and honestly, um I his answers were for the most part, I would say kind of odd. Um I actually um one on one level I I I I heard uh Tal Rico's response and saying that there's there's you know um the the the extreme cases, um, uh like the way we we approach the concept, the the idea of uh pro-life or pro-choice. Um, it seems like Tal Rico is not trying to move the needle to be as extreme as possible, but was saying like we actually want less abortions. Um but the thing that was really hard was he he did say like you know, the his reason for arguing for this theologically, he started quoting, you know, or started talking about um how Mary was given the choice. Um, he talked about the woman at the well, and then he you know Jesus honoring women, which amen, hallelujah. We we we wholeheartedly agree, but also that he uh that that Mary was was uh asking consent to have um you know Jesus in her womb. And you're going, hmm, I don't know. Um I mean the story of of God coming upon them and the angel, there was seemed seemed to be some pushback of like, what? Because Mary's a virgin. Um but again, all of it say, let's say that that is what happens. Um I it just it was it was a stretch for me to make that connection and that argument. Um and yet once like all of that was just like out there for a year or so, and it was kind of like okay, interesting. Um, don't agree. Um, kind of a weird, uh odd way of making your case. But it wasn't until he got the nod, and that it was like a serious thing that he is becoming a uh a Senate candidate that now it seems like his name is everywhere, it is all over the internets. And there's always rip uh conservative right-linging folks who have just come out of the woodworks. Um, Ali Beth Stuckey, uh, she's got a podcast uh called Relatable. I can link it here. Um, and I think the title of her that episode is uh James Tallerico is more demonic than you think. So he's a demon, he's demonic. Yikes! Um there's a mega church pastor, Josh Howarton, uh, who refers to him as a synagogue of Satan, like satanic. Like, what? Dan Patrick, um, our current lieutenant governor, who weirdly, his daughter went to school with me and my wife, and um just like, and I think my wife was semi-friends with her, just kind of an odd connection there. Um, and Dan Patrick, not the sports guy, but our lieutenant governor says, um, said recently, James Talarico, who decided to bring the Bible into this election, and let me tell you, that's not a Bible I've ever read. I've never seen so much blasphemy from anyone running for office. Patrick said to an uproar of applause, let me tell you what. I'm gonna say, I'm gonna pray for that guy because when he loses the Senate race, if he campaigns against God as he's been doing, he's going to hell for sure. That's what we're up against. That's the darkness, that's the light, that's why we must be one. Oh, oh man, it is so hard to live in this country at times that when someone disagrees with you, they just they completely painted this man who he seems to be pretty uh considerate of human beings. Like, that's the thing I think is appealing to James Talrico is how respectful um and mindful he is of of the person sitting across from him, regardless of how they've they've like attacked him. He seems to be giving them respect and honor, and then people are calling him demonic and now saying he is going to hell. Like, for what? Side note, real important, France is now up 1-0 on Morocco. Thank you. You're welcome. Um, this is this is wild. Um the uh I mean it's it's this is like white evangelicalism in a nutshell. I mean, it's just a we've we've completely abandoned our ethics, our virtue, our Christless Christ-likeness in the pursuit of power. Um there's the the the guy who currently is in charge of the Babylon B Joel Barry. He says, yes, between a guy with personal scandals and a guy who wants to use the power of government to medically rape your children and force your daughters to share locker rooms with male autogenophilic perverts, this is a no-brainer, and Christians shouldn't apologize for it. The way he just painted it right there. A guy with you know just some personal scandals and one who wants to rape children. Like oh my goodness. What? Another man, Jason Howerton, says, since I'm gonna be hearing about it for the next six months as a Texas voter, let me answer the question. You would vote for an adulterer over James Talarico? That's not very Christian. And he says, here's the truth. I would rather vote for almost anyone else who's going to at least advocate for conservative policies over a literal heretic who wears my faith like a skin suit, advocates for policies that harm children, endorses immorality, and generally harm society. Ken Paxton has a personal baggage. I don't deny that, but Talarico has plenty too. And he openly mocks God's law and treats Jesus as a political mascot, all the while pushing a radical far-left agenda that would be a disaster for my state. You see, I'm an adult. I do not expect those who are seeking political office to be my moral superiors or even trustworthy. Wait, you don't want people to be trustworthy? Uh they are tools to be used to do the least amount of damage via policy. I wish more pastors and men who live godly lives were running. I really do, but the options were we get are what they are. Paxton supports secure borders, law enforcement, lower taxes, unleashing American energy, the Second Amendment, just to name a few. Tyreek supports unlimited abortion. That's not true of him. Transing children, not true of Tylerico, higher taxes, government-run health care and is incredibly comfortable blasphemy the word of God. I'm not voting for a priest, I'm voting for an imperfect person to represent my interests. That's how it works. You're not gonna guilt trip Texans into supporting a Looney Tunes candidate like Tad Al Rico. Paxton will win by five plus. It's about policy, not personality. Oh goodness. I gotta stop. I gotta stop. Is it about policy? Is it because it seems to me that there isn't an actual policy that Paxton is supporting except for being pro-Trump. And Trump will say, you know, let's let's build a wall. Um, let's be pro-life, except when we're not, and we're we're taking life, and we are, you know, okay with a pill that would you know produce abortions, but just not other abortions, and then we're gonna be okay with like there is no policy that that like there's not a fixed thing that Trump holds on to. The main thing that he was pushing was a wall in 2015 that Mexico would pay for, and then the wall isn't built, Mexico never paid for it, and then the main thing in 2024 that he was pushing was no wars because Kamala would get you into wars, and now we're in a war. And so I don't, it's not person, it's not policy, I don't think. Uh so um what is it? And you could say maybe it's just like because like I get it where you're like, well, yeah, but like it's one thing for like those people out there to deal with that stuff, but when you when you start talking about like theology, then I'm then my my ears perk up. And there's times like that's true for me. When you start talking theology, I'm like, all right, what are you gonna say? How how off are you?

God Is Nonbinary And The Backlash

SPEAKER_00 21:38

And one of the things that has just made people so so angry right now is how James Talariko has said that God is non binary. Also, France is now up too, oh um God is non binary. Um and This is from the the um I think when he was in being interviewed with uh Joe Rogan where he was just saying that you know God if you look out scripture that there's there's plenty of um moments here where God doesn't doesn't um claim a gender and I would it's hard for us to argue against that um there are times when God uses you know masculine pronouns but doesn't claim a gender. Um you know there's there's times when it says God the Father, and so yes, gendered, yes, that's how God has presented himself, but there are also times, and you could think of Matthew 23, uh where it says, Oh Jerusalem, Jerusalem, how often would I have gathered your children together as hen gathers her brood under her wings and you were not willing? And that God is referred to as a mother hen who gathers her chicks, and so that is not complicated theology. And I don't think actually, if we weren't having the conversation on trans stuff, this wouldn't even be a conversation. I think people would go theologically, yes, God is non-binary in that sense that God is not gendered, except for you say God the Father or Jesus is you know took on flesh and so therefore he was, uh is a man. Great, great. Um, but is all of that a reason to now cast all of this you know hesitation and tension on whether Talerico is the Antichrist? So let me just be up front and and say James Talarico is not the Antichrist. Like I would I'm I'm I I want to be bold and set the tone. I I'm I'm not defending Taler Rico's theology, but I do not believe he's the Antichrist. Um how does scripture tell us to discern false teaching and what language should Christians use when we

What Scripture Calls Antichrist

SPEAKER_00 24:12

disagree? That to me is the more interesting question. I would love it if any of these podcasters would have led with that, or even if they wanted for the clickbait to have that he is demonic or he is a synagogue of Satan, and then went into this conversation, right? Because I think the the questions we want to ask is what is an antichrist? What is there one antichrist? Is there the great antichrist that you might have seen in the um uh left behind series that there's like the Satan? I think if you look at scripture, there are many antichrists, like it's someone who is against Christ, so it's not just one, it's there are many antichrists. And so, is anyone actually claiming to be anti-Jesus? Well, you could say, well, it's the false teacher. Okay. And scripture has high standards for teachers. Amen. Hallelujah. But there are many denominations out there, there are many Christians out there who disagree on certain things. Are we now saying that the only right way of understanding the Bible is in, uh, I don't know, Ali Beth Stuckey's um denomination, let's say Southern Baptist. Is it in just the Southern Baptist form? And so that every other denomination is now antichrist, and every other denomination is just full of false teachers? I sure hope not. But also, if it is true of your denomination that you're like, no, I'm in the right one, pretty soon you're gonna start making some distinctions there. You're like, well, I'm of this sliver of Southern Baptists, or I'm of this sliver of uh Anglican or Methodists, to where everyone else is now anathema. Like, we we're just so prone to want to decide who's in and who's out. And so can someone sincerely love Jesus and still be wrong? I absolutely believe that's true. Because I pastor a church. I know human beings, even if I didn't pastor this church, there are many human beings out there who sincerely love Jesus and are still wrong on a hundred different things. And it's not as if they're all wrong on the same thing, we're all wrong on some hundred other things. And this is why I I tell our church uh in our kind of new members class that we think theology is really, really important. Like theology is is very, very important, which is why we as pastors and elders uh put a lot of time into what we believe and why we believe it. But good theology cannot save you. You even the demons believe, Jesus said and shudder. Like you can say Jesus is Lord and yet ignore it. So good theology will not save you, but bad theology can really corrupt you. And many of us in theology and pieces have been under the preaching or under the teaching of bad theology. And so we also know how bad bad theology is. So we want to take it serious without elevating it as to being the one, the most important thing there is.

Theology Matters But Character Leads

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To me, what I try to tell people, and I said this to our church on Sunday, um kind of related to, you know, finding a spouse and um emphasizing how character is far more important than chemistry. Because character might, you know, or chemistry might start a relationship, but character is going to sustain the relationship. And when you are looking at churches, you many of us look at look at the church. We look at the Instagram, we look at the YouTube and go like, can I see myself there? And I joked, you know, we are, yes, we are that shallow. If our church had blue carpet, there's I think we would have half the amount of people in our church just by by looks alone. Like human beings are that shallow. Um but many of us don't just look at the the carpet, we also look at someone's belief page. Do do they, you know, would they affirm what I affirm? And you know, it's really difficult to find someone who believes everything exactly the way you believe. But even when you do find someone who believes nine out of ten things, maybe even ten out of ten things, how do you know they actually believe it? Like deep in their core. Now they might say Jesus is Lord, they might say they believe that, and then yet they act as if they are the Lord and they build their own mini kingdom. And so, yes, the the beliefs page is important, but it's really the character of the leaders that is far more important to me. And so, are they humble? Are they kind? Are they generous? That to me is far more important. Now, I know we're talking about this with our theology and things like that, but like, what does antichrist actually mean? Is it actually just someone who I dis I strongly disagree with? Someone with dangerous theology? Scripture is much more specific. 1 John 2 says it's he who is the liar, but who denies Jesus is Christ. John isn't talking politics, he's talking about denying Jesus. And so if someone does deny Jesus, then yeah, we call them an antichrist. You can say, well, then what about them being a liar? Well, there are many liars in politics, and it almost feels like it's the what you have to pay to play. And who knows? Maybe that's true. Maybe every single politician is a liar. And therefore, is every every is every single politician an antichrist? I don't think so. I think there's a more specific definition there. Uh 1 John 4 says every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. So every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ. So if Tallerico does confess Jesus Christ, we should take that seriously. Like, you might disagree with him on immigration or on taxes or on um on you know abortion or whatnot. But if he's if he confesses that, then like we have more in common than we have different. I'll put my cards on the table. Um I have met James Tallerico. It doesn't mean I'm an uh a backer of him or endorser of him. You in uh November, when the vote, you know, the voting comes, you can vote your conscience on this. Um they the his his uh uh group reached out and they came to our church. They asked to speak. We said no. We don't do that with churches, uh, with with church. Um and it was odd. It was uh it was in the spring of last year, and it was we had a baptism that Sunday, we had it to be a youth-led service, and we had a potluck. And so it was just this fun Sunday where like a hundred things were already happening, and now the Taler Rico team came and it was just a uh um like here's a here's a little slice of who our church is. Um, and it was you know, our our children leading the way. Uh so it was kind of fun. And then I think ironically, that Sunday, I think one of my application points at the end of each sermon, I say something along the lines of so what, and can try to give you know direct application. And I think one of my so what's without considering who was coming, which is which is good. I shouldn't do that. I shouldn't be thinking of who exactly is to be there with uh the Tal Riku team. I think I said go red. And now I'm off the top of my head, I'm I'm I'm forgetting what the red was about. Um, but later Malcolm was like, oh really? I think red did not refer to our politics or anything like that. I I I'll have to look it up, but that was it was it was a fun moment. Um, but I don't I think you should consider that he actually is a Christian who's you might disagree with on stuff. Not an antichrist, not a synagogue of Satan. Like these are just wild claims that genuine Christians are making of saying of other human beings. Like, okay, so let's maybe you're not saying there he's a he's a satanic or a synagogue of Satan or demonic, but you're like, yeah, but he's a false teacher. Okay, well, what does that mean to be a false teacher? Are you a false teacher if you have something wrong? I think every single one of us would say there's something about my theology that that is wrong, but does it make me a false teacher? Well, Matthew 7 tells us that you will know them by their fruits. Does our teaching lead to good fruit? Jesus points us to the fruit, not not merely the arguments. I think there's a lot in um our theology that we can wrestle with. I think there's a, I don't think everything is subjective. I think there's objective truth. But I just think it's really difficult to fully get there. This is why I think the the uh Jewish tradition rabbis are constantly arguing with different interpretations of of the Old Testament. I think it's just a healthy way of going like, we don't have it where we have God telling us directly every single interpretation in front of us. We have to wrestle with these things. And so if you've gotten something a little bit off, whether it's on uh infant baptism or believers' baptism, whether it's on uh pre-lapsarian or supra-lapsarianism, whether it's on uh, you know, post-millennial, amillillennial, or premillennial. Those are important conversations to have, but it does it make you a false teacher if you're in the wrong on this? I think we have to do our best and understand the scriptures. But it says you will know them by their fruits. Is our theology actually producing good fruit? I think that's something for us all to consider. Is you know, what is what I'm holding to, is it actually proving to be good? We recently, in the last couple years, and this is the beginning of this podcast, we talked about women in leadership. It's not just that we swift uh shifted our view of women in leadership and we're like, yeah, now we're right. Um I actually do believe we're in the right on this. And if you disagree with that, I'm glad you're listening to this podcast. Please listen to more. Please go back and listen to those conversations, send in your questions, and we'd love to engage with that. But it's not just that I think that we're right, I've also seen the good fruit of it to have other women teach me and to teach our church in the pulpit and in our our leadership. That I'm like, man, we would be worse off if we didn't have this. And so I think the fruit has proven that to be true as well. So um but he Talarico does have some things that are worth challenging. Like many Orthodox Christians, including me, would disagree with him on certain things. We talked about, you know, that his justification for uh abortion. But the thing that I thought was compelling about his interview with um Joe Rogan, if you can go back and listen to that if you want, very long interviews on Rogan, um was it didn't feel like he was super excited to be pro-choice. It it seemed like what he was arguing was you know, when when people are having faced with this like hard, hard decision, having gone through whether it's through incest or rape or what like what do we do here? And so it seemed like he was wrestling with the conversation, the topics that in a way that you don't really hear politicians or democratic politicians wrestling with. And it was like, it was refreshing. Um even if he votes a certain way, right? Like, okay, that's important decisions. Um, but I think doctrine matters, but I also think the way you hold your doctrine matters

Why Leadership Standards Are About Fruit

SPEAKER_00 36:46

even more. And this is what I want to talk about with character. I absolutely believe that your policy is important. But I also think what's more important than your policy is your character. Because that character is going to enforce the way you think about your policy and your commitment to the policy. Every single one of us has has seen politicians who say they believe one thing and then do another. Uh, you can go back to all the way back to uh George Bush Sr. He's like, uh, no new taxes, right? And then he he he did taxes. Um or Bill Clinton saying, I did not, you know, uh have sex with Monica Lewinsky, and then he he did. Like every politician, it seems, has is just kind of coming out on these things and with lies. And so that wasn't really a policy moment that Bush's was. But what's their character behind it? That's gonna shape their leadership, right? This is why when we look for leaders leaders within the church, the primary thing that the church asks for in First Timothy 3 and Titus 1 is the qualifications for leadership are almost entirely about character, almost universally. The the one the one uh uh quality outside of character that that is required for elders is it says ability to teach. But other than that, it's all character. It's it's you know, are you trustworthy? Um, are you above reproach? Are you self-controlled? Are you hospitable? Um, are you not given to drunkenness and not violent? Are you gentle? Are you not quarrelsome? Are you you not a lover of money? Manage your own house well, like and not a recent convert. You have uh good reputation with outsiders. This is these are all like character questions. Like that's that's so important. Like, why is that so important for us as Christians in our church and leadership, but not in our our political realm? And I get it. You can be like, we can just divorce our minds from those things and go like, well, that's that's political, this is church. I understand the I've I've lived that. We're like, well, okay, that's just different. And y'all, that's happening right now. Like you know what, like I just you know, I got a buzz on my Apple Watch, you know, Graham Platiner now accused of rape. A Senate candidate accused of rape, and you're going, this is so gross. There is no moral high ground in either party. They all of these things were put out there early on about Graham Platner, and the Democrats said, but we gotta win, we gotta take down this this thing, this you know, this monster, this tsunami, this the end of the world. And if it means we vote for a guy who's got some really nasty allegations towards him, then yeah, we'll still vote for him. And it wasn't until, and so he had a lot of allegations out there prior to this, but then it wasn't until that it was finally that he was accused of rape that he was finally stepped stepped out of the race. And all throughout the time, there are there are Republicans going, like, how could Democrats do this? How could they promote someone so vile who would who would do something like this to other human beings and women? And you're going you've got to be kidding me right now, because our president is convicted of these things with Eegene Carroll. He's we have a convicted rapist as a president, so it's no surprise that he goes and changes his mind on things. But are we calling him the antichrist? There are times I wonder if is he antichrist? He proclaims Christianity, I think. Um, he has said that he doesn't believe he's saved, uh, he doesn't believe he's going to heaven. Um but this is why character is so, so important. Jesus is is it prioritizes character because that's gonna allow you to be in a position to make these policy decisions? It's uh allow you to be in a position to actually lead the people well. And so I just I think the big question is is why are Christians sometimes willing to call one person demonic while also calling another person's repeated moral failures God using imperfect people? Like you think throughout history, like and just to change it up so it's not just all about modern and you know the the temperature is real hot. Think about David. Think about Peter and Augustine, Martin Luther, J John Newton, they were all very not morally perfect. But what do we think of them? Are they demonic? Or is God able to still use them? And that's that's a hard thing for us as Christians. Like what do we what does discernment look like now? Are we on on the same like like hey no, like uh Grant Platiner, he that was a while ago, but now he's changed, he's a changed human being, and I'm like, I want that to be true of him, but just don't run for office. It's kind of like when um Tullian Chavigin, uh a pastor, um had also um a public um affair meltdown, and then recently you know got back into ministry. You're like, man, I want that for you. I want you to have redemption, and you know, I want this to be like your story of like God using imperfect people. But do you need to be still a pastor in these times? I don't know, man. I think discernment is really important and kind of being slow in this process.

Discernment Without Demonizing People

SPEAKER_00 43:23

This is where I think the the Bereans in Acts 17, that you know, they listen, they examine the scriptures, they didn't you know begin with labels, they investigated. Uh, James 1 says to be quick to listen and slow to speak and slow to anger. Can we be quick to listen to people and slow to speak on certain things? You know, maybe not maybe that's self defeating by doing this on a podcast. Um but I want us to be able to actually use discernment on human beings, but all of that without demonizing. Matthew 5 tells us Jesus on the Sermon on the Mount says, Love your enemies. I do not believe you can love your enemies when you call them demons. When when Trump just called uh the Iranian people just like scum. Um and who knows? I don't know if they're f negotiating in bad faith. They might be. It also feels like our US side is negotiating in bad faith. But if you're calling someone else scum and then you're also supposed to at some point like ha end with a diplomatic, you know, time because we're not just gonna forever be bombing and forever be at war. At some point at the end, there's a diplomatic way to say, like, here's a path forward. You have to be able to like show some respect. And so, like how do you you can't love someone you think that low of? You know, James 3 talks about blessing God and you know, cannot cursing people made in God's image. So, yes, like let's love our enemies without demonize them. Can we find someone like a talerico, like another pastor down the road from you, and still affirm that they are Christians, even if you strongly disagree with them? I know that's difficult. I know that's difficult. I have churches in our city right now that I strongly disagree with, and and I get there's there's probably a certain line, you go like at this point, they've crossed the line from being a church to being you know a synagogue of Satan. Uh I may maybe I'm right there with with Josh Howardon. But I think that that line has got to be a lot further along than we than you think. I think I think um we are quick to throw that line out that someone's the Antichrist, that someone's demonic. And so maybe we we we slow down with uh the trigger to label people like this. Um what doctrines are essential to Christianity? I I I like that at our church we say it shouldn't be it shouldn't be harder to get in the kingdom of God than it is to get into your church. Um let's apply that to our political opponents as well. Like it are they a Christian? Then let's see them as a brother in Christ first. Like they're a brother and sister in Christ that that we are on the same team, even if we disagree on some of these policies. But when should we call someone a false teacher? When do we call someone antichrist? I think the antichrist one, they have to be extremely they have to have to be explicitly antichrist. Um you could say their policies are antichrist, their policies are um uh hurting immigrants and in and human beings, and you're like, that is antichrist. But are they the antichrist? I'm sure they don't believe themselves to be that in their mind. Are they a false teacher? There are some false teachings. It's a difficult question here. Um I just want to be careful of putting someone in such a you know a an other position that we it's it becomes impossible for us to love them and for us to be able to understand them. Because I guarantee every single one of us has a um an other in our lives, uh whether it's a family member or a um friend that also listens to Alibeth Stucky, that also listens to Josh Howarton, um, that also affirms that someone like that is on the other side of the the aisle. And are we counting them also? And so this this this episode is less about the the politics than it is about character and heresy and antichrists. Um I would encourage us this week to to value character in the people around us. Which means you might need to critique the people around you who are exemplifying some really poor character. There are many who who stuck with Graham Platiner even though because they thought that this would help us take down this red tsunami that is just tearing the world apart. Let's just value character more than anything else. Like doctrine cannot be tribal. Let's let's let's go to First Timothy three and and Titus one and make those applications on who we want in our churches, but also people that are we're hiring for our jobs, but also in our politics as well. And all of that, to say, man, I would love to bring Talerico on and investigate why he believes what he believes. I disagree with him on um a couple different things. But he he all he does hold space for people who disagree with him. And you could say, yeah, he almost sounds um universalistic um in the ways that he's like all roads lead to the same God. And I'm like, is that what you mean to say? I would love to ask you more questions on that. Um but if that's where he's at, I will disagree with him. But his character has shown me a love for the person sitting around him, his a love for the people he cared about in his uh middle school classrooms, and a love as a as a politician for the people of Texas that I'm like, man, that's that's beautiful. Um, this is not an endorsement of Talerico. Um, but if we're saying he's the demon, and then you have Ken Paxton who's shown such a lack of character, I'm going, man. We've I I just wish this wasn't our politics. And I think all of this just reveals we need a king, we need deliverance from this system. And the Mennonites seem to have it right that politics is not the kingdom of God. Uh, I I think it can be used to advance justice and mercy and truth. Goodness, there's just like when you get the text uh on your your Apple Watch saying this per this Senate candidate has been accused of this, and you're like, it was just discouraging. Is that really our, you know, like when it was Biden and Trump, you're like, is this really the only options we have? It's discouraging. So is bad theology more dangerous than bad character? I don't know. Um, I I I probably lean more on the bad character is more dangerous. Um, and why do Christians often forgive moral failure more quickly than theological disagreement? I I love the impulse to forgive uh moral failures because you're thinking Jesus forgave me. But are they showing any repentance? Grimplatner doesn't seem to be showing any repentance and lack of any ownership. Same as Donald Trump. No ownership on anything he's ever done wrong. I don't I disagree, I I 100% know I would disagree with Trump on some theological things. I probably agree with him on some stuff, but it's that lack of character that makes me go, I cannot trust you. And so what does scripture prioritize in leadership? And I think it's been clear it's character, character, character.

Final Takeaways And Sign Off

SPEAKER_00 51:45

Um, y'all, thank you so much. Uh, I hope these uh podcasts uh going solo have not been so difficult for you to uh to stomach. Um it's been fun, but also, you know, looking forward to Malcolm on his way back. I don't think that's the song I want. There it is. That's the song I want. Um thanks so much for listening to Theology Pieces. Um it's been fun. France. Morocco 2-0. I was rooting for Morocco. And the uh dogs. But hey, there you go. So that's France. Uh but next time we look forward to seeing Malcolm with us. Ask him all the hard questions about his uh sabbatical. Was he truly in a cult drinking Kool-Aid? I think so. Did he go to a monastery to come to the video?