Welcome And The Big Question

SPEAKER_05 0:21

Hey, hey, hey! Welcome to Theology in Pieces. Oh, hey! Where we hope to rebuild your theology, the church, the world, or somebody has shattered to pieces, and we are your host, Slim Ann. Malcolm. And today it's gonna get cray cray. Today we're gonna talk about one Lord, but many pastors. What oh gosh. Okay. What happens?

SPEAKER_01 0:50

As you all know, I have no idea what Slim's about to do.

SPEAKER_05 0:52

So what happens when we start confusing uh uh our role in this whole uh scheme of things uh as pastors in the church uh with the uh authority and the work uh and the lordship of Jesus? Uh and so um uh a pr a pre preview of this this episode. What what's worse, Malcolm? AI pastors or abusive pastors? That's all gonna lead us to the Nicene Creed. We'll answer that question. Um but uh just to to just to get us started off the off the cuff. Uh what's uh thinking of crazy things pastors have said before? What's what's one of the craziest things you've ever heard a pastor say from the pulpit?

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Or I know you asked me this question. I can't I and I can't think of I can't think of something because I I try to actively avoid listening to other pastors in general.

SPEAKER_05 1:47

Uh no, like that you've experienced and and and you can cite me. I get it. I get it.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

I'm gonna ignore them as much as possible. I just stay steeped in the tradition of the church because there's way too much foolishness uh in the world right now. There is a lot of foolishness. There's a lot of foolishness.

SPEAKER_05 2:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

What's something what you I know you have an I know you have an anecdote though.

SPEAKER_05 2:08

No, I was hoping to get from you.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

People people be crazy, people pee, people just be out here saying stuff. That is that is a thing that people do.

SPEAKER_05 2:18

Yeah. Um,

A Pastor’s Words That Wounded

SPEAKER_05 2:20

I think one of it's maybe the most bizarre um thing that I've ever heard, but it probably had the most impact on me. Okay. Um in weirdly a positive way. Um this is uh so back back in the day when I just became a Christian. So this is middle school era. Um, I just became a Christian um in uh when I was 13, and that summer after, uh this was around like January, February time, that summer afterwards, I was on this retreat and uh this this church camp retreat, Kingsland Baptist Church in uh Katy, Texas. And we went on this big retreat, and the camp pastor um was speaking on multiple things, but on the one of the first nights he spoke on the unforgivable sin. Um and that there are there are something that you when if you commit this sin, God will not forgive you. And I remember hearing it of you know, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit uh and going, Oh. And so then I f I I set up to meet with the camp pastor the very next day during some of the free time. I was like, hey, can I get it together? He's like, Yeah, come on. And so we sit on this park bench, you know, everything, everyone's outside having fun, and I'm like, hey, you said that there are there's this one sin that God will not forgive. And he's like, Yeah, yeah. And then I was like, Can you explain more? He's like, I mean, that's what the scripture says, like that you you blaspheme the Holy Spirit, God will not forgive you. And I was like, There's no other interpretation of this passage, and he's he said, No, that's it. And I just I I started weeping and I wept for four days that week of this whole camp. I mean, just it completely ruined my experience because in my mind, when I became a Christian, uh part of it was my my own testimony was when my friend Mike Ryan became a Christian, he came to me and said, Slim, you bring me down, I can't be your friend anymore. And I I was uh the rebellious kid, I was the prodigal son. And so I there was truth to it. But at that time, he was like my best friend, and I just I saw God taking my best friend away from me. And so then I was mad at God, and I definitely cussed God out. I was I was and I I enraged and got went the opposite way. But in God's mercy and grace, you know, he reaches, he he uses the youth pastor, and then he uses the uses youth pastor to speak to um this the this kid Mike Ryan is like, hey, uh I appreciate you're trying to put some boundaries and protect yourself, but we uh also reach out to the lost. We go after the one, leave the 99. Yeah. And so then he started seeking after me, um, this friend and this youth pastor. And and so in God's grace, he he used these two as well as my parents' prayers to reach me. And so I became a Christian. Um and then this summer I'm hearing about you know, if you blaspheme the Holy Spirit, God will not forgive you. And I was like, So for three, four days straight, I was convinced I'm going to hell. And so I started reading passages on hell of going like this is what I'm gonna get. And it just it was so exhausting. I came back to the camp pastor on that Friday before we leave, and I'm like, There's gotta be another way.

SPEAKER_06 5:32

Like just begging him, and he's like, What are you so worried about? And I was like, I told him what happened. He goes, Oh, that's not what that means at all. And I'm like, What?

SPEAKER_05 5:39

He's like, Oh, in his mind, his his interpretation of the passage was uh that if you said the things of Jesus were the things of the devil, right? But if you ascribed them that way, then um then that that's blasphemy the Holy Spirit. And I was like, What? That never came into my mind.

SPEAKER_06 5:56

It's that was one of those things that you're just like, please be more careful with what you say. Like I was I was destined to hell for four days, and I say this as like this had to be in a good thing is because after hearing the relief that like there is hope, it made me so much more gracious for God's grace.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

Like it made me so much more like thankful that God actually is going to save me. That's good.

SPEAKER_05 6:19

So that was that was a little traumatic moment there.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Yeah, that is that is traumatic.

SPEAKER_05 6:24

I wasn't expecting to go back to that day.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Yeah, that's thanks, Malcolm. We took you out, it took you took you back a little bit.

SPEAKER_06 6:31

I think that's today's podcast.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

Uh oh boy.

Mailbag And Our Malformed Humor

SPEAKER_05 6:35

Um well, we have uh as always, we have a uh a mailbag. We encourage we encourage you to uh write in. I would love to sing the uh blues clues mailbag song.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

We just got a letter. We just got a letter, we just got a letter. I wonder who it's from. Uh isn't there another one?

SPEAKER_05 6:55

Like, what's the mail? Isn't that? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Yeah. I think I remember that one. I just remember we just got a letter, but it's fine.

SPEAKER_05 7:06

So if you uh email us hello at theologypeases.com, um, we would love to respond to what you got. So we got we got uh uh an email last time, uh, and here it goes. It says, as always, I've enjoyed listening to your podcast. Some of the topics this week have been on my mind lately, even before the podcast. First, let's go to the Texas game. I'm in agreement with everything said, uh, but something else happened after you recorded in the press conference. I do remember this now. Uh the press conference with uh Arch Manning and his reaction to an AI generated video showing the coach slapping the female reporter uh was very disturbing on man's reaction. He he laughed um at it. Um, but also we need to address the laughter I heard from the reporters. No awkward silence, just laughter. Uh Russell Moore recently wrote an article and shared on his podcast on how our humor has been malformed by laughing at degrading memes, whether it is of immigrants or in this case a woman. I realize there's always been people degrading others, but it just seems that we are at another level. Apologies are great, but what happened to make him or others think that it was okay to laugh in the first place? Another note related to the uh Dave Ramsey response I'm not an all expert on the economy, reading the anti-greed gospel. As well. We actually have a sound effect machine, but I'm just saying it there it is. Uh here we go. Um, as well as Living in Community Second Edition has been eye-opening to me. I'm reading the autobiography on Dorothy Day and was curious at her economic thoughts. From what I read, she eventually came to the economic theory of distributism. Now, I will admit that you may have addressed this in a book and I missed it, but can you explain more of what that is versus socialism? I'm curious on your thoughts. Thank you both again for all you do with the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 8:49

So um let's let's let's break this up. For the first part is uh responding to the AI generated meme and you know the um the lack of response there. Yeah, that was that was ridiculous. Um and as much as I I said, like after seeing Bo tweet, you know, uh Bo uh what's his name? Um Oh yeah. Yeah. The shenanigans on that tweet.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

You'll notice, like I I devote my mind to few things. And then and the names of people who say and do racist things are not one of the things that I devote lots of my brain energy to.

SPEAKER_05 9:26

Bo French.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

There he is. There it is.

SPEAKER_05 9:28

Yeah. Um so it was going back to last week's uh, you know, the the big the big um flare-up uh because of his tweet in the race racism there. Um and then saying, you know, it was nice to see these people celebrate Texas win. But then there was this AI image of uh video of um Steve Sarkeesian slapping a reporter and Arch saw and laughed, and everyone laughed in the conference. Um but you ask the question here about degrading memes of whether it's um you know all these cases, you know, whether it's okay to laugh in the first place.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

This is this is good because it also draws attention to the ways in which people are being formed on a day-to-day basis. So the more time that you spend, for example, doom scrolling on Instagram and Facebook and Twitter and stuff, the more uh first of all, the algorithm is going to be shaped. I mean, it's gonna shape the algorithm. What you think is the algorithm shaping itself to your tastes is also in many ways the algorithm shaping your tastes.

SPEAKER_04 10:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

And so, and so like so it it it will also reshape your humor. And so because also because the internet is good is going to continue to be flooded with this kind of content, the more time you spend with it, the more it's going to shape you. This is just the this is also just kind of the nature of the way that we operate. The more, the more we spend time with particular things, the more those things actually do shape us, which is why it's really important for us to think about our time and our attention as things that we intentionally spend on things. Just like our money, it's a resource. It's our time and our attention are resources. And every social media company makes money off of monetizing that particular resource that you have, your attention. They've already colonized as much land as they possibly can. Now they're coming after the, I mean, now they're coming after your time, your time and your attention. And so the kind of degradation of our humor comes, I think also comes from the fact that we're being flooded, we're being flooded with stuff that can um uh that sometimes that often kind of wears down our moral imagination. This is true of AI uh broadly. I have thoughts about that stuff anyway. But um, but yeah, it is it is uh it is sad because we think, because especially when we see something AI generated, there's there's a part of our mind that tells us that it's fake, which then allows us to um I guess kind of silence our moral, like kind of silence our moral reasoning for a for a moment, which then which is which is always which which is I think actually always a dangerous thing to do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:09

Um I I think I think I think uh this this writer is right. Uh there has always been degrading of others. Oh yeah. Um I do remember in college, a lot of my friends were um going to see these um R-rated comedy movies like Wedding Crashers or Old School. Oh yeah. Um you may find those funny, and there are funny things that happen in there, but there's also a lot of degrading things that happen in there that I after a while I was like, man, I just feel like we're like just in this filth of like the laughter is yes, these things can be funny, but you're like it also seems to be glorifying some of this. Um and I think it's it is a as you said, like it is affecting me. Um but I do think to to this writer's uh this em emailer's um question, I do think things have stepped it up um to where it you can see a shift. And I I thought about with you know that Beaufren's tweet, and I thought if I clicked the the responses, I would see a lot more, you know, con condemning language of this, but it was a lot more like, yeah, get out of here, you know, brown skinned people. You're like, oh my goodness, you've normalized this racism. And yeah, it so I uh

Distributism Versus Socialism

SPEAKER_05 13:19

yeah. But then the other thing um uh they wrote was um responding to the Dave Ramsey response and a question on the difference on distributism. Yeah, what's your thoughts there?

SPEAKER_01 13:29

So uh so and I mentioned this in the book. Whenever I do anti-capitalist stuff, the like the reflex of people, mostly because of the ways that they've been uh unconsciously disciplined by American history, is that they is that they immediately assume that any critique of capitalism is a is in support of state sponsored socialism. Um and that's not it's not true. Those are not those are not the only two options. So so uh so distributism is um so where where state-sponsored socialism, so uh specifically the forms of capitalism that we know focused focused wealth and resources and the means of production in the hands of a few private owners. Um this is the capacity that people have to be like billionaires and trillionaires. It's because you can you can hoard those resources for yourself. Uh state-sponsored socialism, the means of production lie in the hands of the government. Still, it's still a concentration of uh of wealth and power that can also easily be exploited. Uh uh distributism means that uh that the that the resources uh that the means of production are are dis are distributed widely among private, among private hands, specifically like the hands of the hands of the people. Um so when people think about socialism um I think uh properly, they're they're they're thinking of these resources being in the hands of uh of workers. But in thinking about distributism, it's it's that, hey, these are resources that are meant, that are meant for all of us, uh, and so they need to be distributed among among all of us. This is something that comes out of um there are elements of Catholic social teaching in here. I think uh Dorothy Day and some others were also uh pretty pretty well known um fans of uh of distributism. But there but it's but it's another it's another one of these options. I think I I think we have this we have this issue where, as I said, any critiques of capitalism mean, oh, well you must be you must you must be in fan, you must be a fan of state-sponsored socialism. Look at how that's worked around the world. All this kind of thing I'm like, come first, first of all, calm down. Um I we could like we can have the have the kind of we've got to have the kind of moral clarity to be able to see the ways in which our brothers and sisters are being exploited and to and to name it, and to name it as such. Um and then and then we can then we can think through together what what alternatives, what alternatives can look like. But even as I say in the book, like my goal is not my goal is not to create a new global political economy. I that's not that's not my business. Um what my business is is how does the church how does the church as the people of God operate? Um and so uh I'm thinking about this also since I'm about to preach on um when uh when the Pharisees asked asked Jesus about paying taxes. And so I'm thinking about kind of Christian political engagement in general. But but but but my thing is like who people just regular Christians often spend far too much time thinking about the ideal political order. Um, and they spend less time about and and and and and they spend less time thinking about like well, well, like what does it mean for us to actively be to actively be the church that operates by the logic of the kingdom of God in a way that the kingdoms of the world cannot, in the sense that the church is an invitation to people to in many ways exit the kingdoms of the world and enter into the kingdom of God. Um I wanna I wanna help people think about like what what does an e what does an exodus look like? So and and then and then what does it look like for the for the kingdom of God then for its tendrils to spread until is as the book of um as as we're told in the book of revelation, until the kingdoms of this world become the kingdom of our of our God and of his Christ. Um that's that that's work that the Lord, that's work that the Lord does, not not work that we do out of our coercion or brilliance or whatever.

SPEAKER_05 17:22

Yeah. I love that. I love I mean thank you uh for writing in. I I think it's beautiful to be able to see there are and have like the the creative imagination of the other ways of trying to live on this earth and to have it, whether it be distributism or uh Christian socialism or uh whatever it might be in this saying that we are not restricted to one way on this. I think let's let's lean into a an imagination of what could be, uh not just what is. And so thank you for writing in. Um hopefully we've answered those questions.

The Rise Of The AI Pastor

SPEAKER_05 17:55

Um but now I'm sorry to tell everyone we have time for tweets. And yes, we are never giving up the tweet part. Oh, Malcolm, Malcolm, Malcolm, Malcolm.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

Yes, my dear brother.

SPEAKER_05 18:12

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Yes, my dear brother.

SPEAKER_05 18:13

I know you actually, you know, Malcolm's always hesitant to you know to put effort into some of this. This is actually from Malcolm.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Oh no, oh no. What did I do?

SPEAKER_05 18:26

This is this is you ready for this? Uh oh.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Here we go. Okay, that is the real Pastor Justin in the Flesh preaching on a Sunday. Get this. Now he's created a digital twin, an AI twin that's available for his flock. 24-7. I'm feeling a little lonely today.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

It's not good for man to be alone. That's scripture, that's truth, and it applies to you right now.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

Loneliness isn't weakness. So, how does this work? Basically, he's created a bot that thinks and speaks just like him.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

I connected my YouTube, my TikTok, my Instagram, um, and everything I've ever written. So, all the way back to every sermon I've ever preached, books, all of that are in there. So, here's what I want you to do today: reach out to one person. It creeps me out because like somebody's literally talked to it before and was like, I literally thought you had a conversation with me.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

But can AI do this? Yeah, and when I watch you preach, you know, I see and I feel humanity. Can you really bottle that into an algorithm? Oh no. No, no, no, no. Then don't feel you're also not like creating something that's gonna replace you.

SPEAKER_02 19:49

No, no, I don't know. Never know.

SPEAKER_05 19:52

Exactly how to eat to go from Okay, so um, as you heard here, that there is a pastor.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

Um Lester.

SPEAKER_05 20:00

Um Lester uh in uh where is he? He's in California who's created an AI bot to be his digital twin to duplicate himself. Um and so uh Malcolm, what let's let's let's begin with uh what would be the appeal of creating an AI bot as your twin for your church? What would you think would be a reason why this could be a good thing? Huh?

SPEAKER_01 20:28

I'm just gonna talk about the the few ways in which it is a terrible thing. Um we'll get there. No, I can't. Here's here's okay. Cause here's because here's here's the thing. You you think it's a you think it's a benefit because what it does is it means, oh, now the entire congregation has access to my wisdom 24-7 or whatever. Right. So accessibility. Which that's a profound issue. Um second, second, uh, I mean, that's I think that's really the primary, I really think that's that that's the primary way that you can interpret any any good of this kind of thing is that is that you think that what you you think that what you have to offer is so valuable that the that that the that your that your that your congregation needs 24-7 access access to it. That's that's one of the things that you that's one of the things that you indicate.

SPEAKER_04 21:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

But and and it is a it's a it's a it's a refusal of your own, not only is it a refusal of your own finitude, but it's also a corruption of yourself. So one of the reasons why I I mean, first of all, and I've I've said this before, why I'm never gonna use it in sermon prep or in pastoral care or in or or in any of those things, because past because pastoral work is fundament is fundamentally is fundamentally human work. But prep, but also, if I feed all of this stuff into an algorithm, it has no that that algorithm has no idea how to value those things. So me seven years ago and sermons that I preached seven years ago. Years ago. And the sermons that I preach now are different because I'm a different person now than I was seven years ago. I'm not like I like there there are ways in which I have significantly grown. And I don't want you creating, I don't want you treating the way I was seven years ago in the same, in the same way that you treat me now. And you will only know who I am now by interacting with me now. Like it, like I can ask, I can ask ChatGPT right now or Claude, I can ask them now to look at all the things that like all the things that I've done and written, all the pup like all the public stuff. There's a lot of public stuff out there. They can they can construct something in quote unquote in my in my voice that might sound, that might sound like me, but it's not. It's not. It's a it's an it's an amount because because because the other thing is, and this is also in just the way that people think about um large large language models anyway. Like it's not it's not actual intelligence and it's not actual wisdom. What it's doing is it's just taking a bunch of data and then spitting back to you what it what it thinks, what it thinks you will be, what it thinks you will be pleased by, basically. And and and and the and and and the fact of the matter is that this this also points to the fact that people, even pastors, think about so much of what they do as the production of a particular product. Whether you think of your sermon as a product, whether you think of the counseling that you do for people as a product, those things aren't products. Those things are those things are based to being a human being is real is relationship building. Yeah. It's rooted in the it's rooted in the Trinity, which which is a relationship of love. For me to, for me to act, for me to act like I can offload that, offload that work. Yeah. And that that because of that convenience and all that stuff, that that's a benefit, I think it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a profoundly anemic theological anthropology. So like you so you ask the questions like, well, you don't want this, you don't think this will replace you.

SPEAKER_05 24:04

Well, no, then like then don't do something, then don't so uh to counterpoint, because you know Okay, we can counterpoint it's good there's there's they're good there's good arguments for it.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

Um there are arguments, I don't know if they're good arguments.

SPEAKER_05 24:20

This comes from uh Jonathan one Jonathan Pakluta, um, who has an an uh an app here locally. Um obviously oh you can get it anywhere, but uh a local pastor here in town uh he's got an Ask Light um app, an AI app. And uh they say, what if there was an AI that had a biblical worldview, but could also help you with grammar for that email? And here's this is from Jonathan Pakuda. He says, AI is here to stay. It's not going anywhere. Once upon a time, it would be like hearing about an email and saying, No, I'm still gonna send my letters through the mail. But here's the thing: not all AI is created equal. The makers behind ChatGBT and Grok don't care if you listen to the Holy Spirit or not. That's not their state of goal. The people behind Light care deeply that you would. This isn't an app trying to replace God, your pastor, your community. It's actually going to drive you deeper into all of them. It's going to push you towards the scriptures, towards your local church, toward the real human reaction. If you turn to light, it's not a replacement for those things. It's a resource that helps you find wisdom the way the Bible instructs us too. As a pastor and father, I needed something I could trust, something with boundaries, I'd be comfortable with my own children using. Light is that for me. And I think it's going to be an enormous blessing to you and your entire household. So, what do you have to say of that, Malcolm?

Why Digital Intimacy Corrupts

SPEAKER_01 25:37

I'm just not convinced that there's a good enough why. I'm like, I I like it all of this, all these things are the creation of mid they're basically the creation of middlemen. And like, I'm like, you don't we what it's I well and could because because part of it is this it's this broader language of the inevitability of this particular technology. And like you can't stop it, and it's not about but the fact is it's not a it's not this is not a question of inevitability. This is a question of something being actively pushed on everyone in a way that there's no in a way that there has largely been no been no consent. I mean, I think about the fact that the president just went out and like renamed because this is apparently a thing that we're we got it wrong. I've we've been calling and it's not artificial intelligence, it's super intelligence, which is which is which is actually like this is the it's superior. There's a book that people should read. Uh it's called If anyone if anyone builds it, everyone dies. Um and it's but it it's specifically about this understanding of uh uh of a super intelligence. And this is but this is but this is also the this is also the kind of thing where we're like what why? Like why why do this? And for and and and and for a number of these, for a number of these a for a number of these um AI companies, it's this it's this promise of making things of making things easier. But when you look at the way that this actually works and you look at the effects that it has, particularly around the world, most of the wealth that's accumulated um is essentially concentrated in the US, Europe, Western, particularly Western Europe, and China. And it's at the ex and at the expense of the global majority. The resources, the the the the resources used, the water used, the electricity used, all of that, all of that, all of that happens at the expense, at the expense of someone. But because we are more driven by greed than we are by than we are by love of our neighbors, the anything, anything that makes us quote unquote, or at least makes us feel like we're more efficient or whatever, uh, those are things that we're gonna, those are things that folks go after. Yeah. And I'm just like those those, but those aren't my those aren't those just aren't my fundamental values. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:58

I mean, you said this before. I think what this is doing is it's turning pastors into content libraries. Yeah. That you as you like, why is it that you need to be the one to be able to speak? Like, there's so much great books out there to be able to offer for people, um, as well as human beings to talk to people. Um, but also that that AI simulated intimacy of as he just said, like, someone was talking to me. Yeah, and they wasn't.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

And they thought that they were talking to you. Like that, like, like that's the other thing. And that, and that's what you want. That's what you want too. You want because what keeps them engaging is them thinking that they're talking to you. Like that's what that's what keeps them engaged. Yeah. That's part of the that's a part of the inherent value of it. And that's also a profound corruption because it is not, it's not you.

SPEAKER_05 28:48

And when you and when that bot says something like, I'm praying for you, it's not. What? It's not. The Lord is not listening.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

Like, that's not how no.

SPEAKER_05 28:59

And then when it says, here's what you should do, and then you go back and you're like, hey, uh, you remember when you told me I should I should drop this fret? And they probably won't have that in the algorithm. But if the it's not telling you what you should do, and so the There's no accountability there too. And that's that was the one of the big things that that I struggle with is there's there is if I say something out of line, which you know, it's it's been known to happen, you called me out, right? If you, you know, very rarely, um, but more so lately, uh say something out of line. We we call each other out. Like there's accountability, but who confronts that when it's just this one-on-one, like, no, I said you should do this thing. And you're like, uh no, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Um I need things that I need things that actively, that actively, um, that actively foster community, not things that not things that claim, not things that claim to do so, but then in but then in many ways just build other parasocial, other kind of parasocial relationships. And this and this is the other thing. I mean, it's what? It's one of the things that social media has done. As much as we talk about the benefits of it and stuff, what it also does is it encourages people to build parasocial relationships with people where they think that they know people because they've spent hours and hours and hours with their content, and you haven't actually spent time with that person. All you've seen is the way that they present themselves to the world. And and and all of these, there, there are ways in which a number of these technologies, yes, have made elements of our lives more convenient or whatever, but then there are also profound ways in which they have driven us actively from one another.

SPEAKER_05 30:34

Yeah. And I think for me, the biggest, the biggest, you know, red line for all of this is what people are already doing with with chatbots and having full relationships with chatbots. Middle schoolers. And now to say that this is in to combine it with faith and spirituality to say, like, now you have had this this you know relationship with this pastor or someone who's on behalf of God, like just pray to God. Like, actually use the time to spend in speaking to God. And so that to me, that's like the biggest, like, no, why are we endorsing more time away from actually going to the the feet of Christ? So but as bad as that is, Malcolm.

When Pastors Preach Control And Abuse

SPEAKER_05 31:14

Oh great. Do I have something for you? Oh boy. What's worse, an AI pastor or this pastor? Um this this comes from uh right wing watch, uh, Annie. Listen into uh this this this guy, uh Brian Suave.

SPEAKER_03 31:32

The the thing that people miss in modernism that we take for granted, we have normalcy bias in a in a certain direction. We consider normal what is actually insane. We consider normal uh women having unsupervised access to one another all the time. And we assume that not normal that they're just like men and that that's good for them. Right. We consider normal women like all these things, women having political rule. We consider normal women living unattached from a male, like a husband, like a father, then a husband, for lengthy periods of time. We consider normal you could fill in the blank with all of these modern feminist outworkings of bring back the monasteries' vision.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

Cut this off. And what they've done is they've made women anxious. Oh, oh, oh no, this is important. Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 32:19

Psychotic, depressed, miserable, and genocidally evil. Yeah, and I and we just go, oh, that's normal. So if anybody's people are genocide, okay, Nikets off.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

I forgot about that part of the book. That women are genocide, that apparently feminism has made women genocidally evil.

SPEAKER_03 32:36

Well, here's something uh uh as well here either shouldn't be on social media the women or any social media they have should be kind of a walled garden situation where some competent man is curating and blocking and directing as protection, taking a look, like what's going on. I have access to Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

Just in case anybody's wondering, this is this is what um this is what patri this is what patriarchy is properly. Like it's it's this, it's this set of assumptions. Okay, first of all, uh bring back the monasteries because one of the so one so one of these things is like the fact that he said it that feminism has made normal, like unsupervised, unsupervised women. I'm like, okay, first of all, uh there are a number of things to say about this, but um Paul's words about singleness and marriage are not just uh they're not just to men. So already from the New Testament, we have this account of the unsupervised man and unsupervised women woman that is in many ways propped up by the apostle. And so like that's not new. It's one of the reasons why we had monasteries and convents for a while until Protestants decided to get rid of them. But beside the point, uh well, that's actually not beside the point. It's actually the entire point. Um, like this just there's a there's a profound, not only historical and theological ignorance here, but also just, I mean, it's just wild to say things like feminism has made women genocidally evil. Like I like like there's just a like there's just a part of this that is not it's not worthy of engagement. It is only worthy of ridicule. But there are people who but there are people who listen and like give some credence to these kinds of ridiculous things that are it's it's just a kind of affirmation of just a blanket affirmation of male power, as though, as though being a man means that you should be in charge of somebody. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 34:38

This is what I I I obviously we we 100% condemn and disagree with this this theology. But I want to I I thought what would be more interesting is asking what kind of theology produces this. Um and I do think this is where you go, okay, here is the here is not even the end, but here is part of the the thorns of this male dominance over women, this, this, this, the thorny side of the the negative side of this this version of of complementarianism, of you know the the umbrella image of the husband over the wife. And here it like completely to where you can't they like he was the what was the first thing you said that like the the the fear of of women uh uh congregating with other women, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 35:23

Yeah, like like that's it's just he says you're living in an insane asylum if you think that's normal. You're like, wait, what I saw these women be like, oh no, women, uh, what are we doing this weekend? Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_05 35:35

And then to like have to have to over oversee someone else's social media.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

Frankly, you know what you know what this logic is? This is also the logic of racialized chattel slavery. So this is the this is this is the argument that in that enslavers made about the enslaved. They're like, don't let them, don't let them gather, don't let them gather. And one of the reasons why they didn't want them to gather was because they didn't want them to gather and and consider the ways in which they're all being exploited so that they don't revolt. And this is this is what when you're trying to maintain an exploit an exploitative system, you don't want those who are being actively exploited in that system to gather with one another. You want to establish overseers. And particularly in a in in an intentionally patriarchal system.

SPEAKER_07 36:19

And you know what?

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Go on. In an explicitly patriarchal system, you need a system of of overseers to make sure that to make sure that the exploited and dominated don't actually rise up against you. So like that's like that that explicit that explicit language of like they can't gather without one of us around. Yeah. That's the that's the that's the echo. That's the echo that I that's the echo that I hear. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 36:46

And I like I said, this is this isn't this isn't even like the the worst it can get. Here's maybe the what the worst of one one last video of pastors who just need to have the pulpit taken from them. Um this is a guy, Pastor Steven Anderson.

SPEAKER_07 37:00

I'm not saying that your husband should slap you down, but if your husband slaps you down and you call the cops, you're evil.

SPEAKER_05 37:08

Okay. So referring to an abuse case, and the person called the the police, and now he says, by you calling the police, you are evil. To me, this is the epitome of seeing women as lesser, as as not even on the same level. This is like it is a it's a distortion of of authority, of of of of what that even looks like. Like, even if you believed in this complementarian view, like you're like there are those who would agree that what uh what leadership should look like should look like the son of man came not to be served, but to serve, he to wash feet. But even then, I disagree with this because Ephesians 5 21 is submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

And this is they all want to emphasize the submit with which wives submit to your husbands, which just becomes a reaffirmation of the Roman patri patrifamilias, where the you the the male head of household can do whatever he wants. Yeah. And everybody like that to the point of this pastor saying this. That's specifically what Paul, even in Ephesians when he's doing the household codes, that's specifically what he's arguing against. Yeah. And so for us to then use that as a for not us, but for people, to use that then as a reaffirmation of the very thing that Paul and the apostles are speaking against is it is is to corrupt, it's to corrupt the holy scriptures. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:34

So to corrupt the holy scriptures. My my my original question, Malcolm, what's worse? An AI pastor or an abusive pastor? They're both disqualifying.

SPEAKER_06 38:47

In this case, I'm like, just go with the AI pastor. This is so bad.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

But we'll do AI's gonna kill all of us, though, so you know.

SPEAKER_05 38:57

Yeah. Oh Lord, deliver us.

The Nicene Creed As A Compass

SPEAKER_05 39:11

All right, all right. Well, all of that should lead us to going, man, if there are this many other versions of Christianity out there, and you you guys have probably been through the gamut and have seen other toxic things. Um, this is why I am thankful for the Nicene Creed. Something that will root us, something so solid that has stood the test of time, something faithful and dependable, like the Nicene Creed, that we can say, no, here's what we do believe as Christians. So um let's recap where we've been. We went with we believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. And then for today's discussion, in the one Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, begotten from the Father and before all ages. So we now go into the section that is distinctly Christian. Uh, because you could you could argue that uh uh there are others who would affirm that we believe in one God uh and God as a father and creator. Um, but now we are in the distinctly Christian section, uh, and in one Lord Jesus Christ, only Son of God, begotten of from the Father before all ages. So we get into the Jesus in the Son section. Um

One Lord Means New Allegiance

SPEAKER_05 40:31

Malcolm, first thoughts on this, uh the the first line there in the one Lord Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_01 40:36

Um there is uh let me find scripture. Well are we against this? Yes, I'm a big, I'm a big fan of the I'm a big fan of the I'm a big fan of the creed. Um the the language is also, and I'm gonna find the I'm gonna I'm gonna find the text um that uh so it it this is it's it's in Ephesians, it's in Ephesians 4, but also I'm I'm thinking of another text that I'll that I'll find too. Um either for the prisoner uh either for the prisoner and the Lord beg beg you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, making every effort to maintain the unity of the spirit and the bond of peace. There is one span body and one spirit, just as you were called to the to the one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all and and through all and in all. And so in even in in Jesus's, not only in Jesus' reference to himself, but also um Paul's reference to Jesus, he refers to Jesus as the Lord, he refers to the Father as God. And so that's that that distinction is also what you is is also it's a biblical distinction that you that you are hearing, that you're hearing in the in the in the creed. Um but in this in this portion it's explaining when we say that um no, it's it's it's in some ways explaining elements of what we mean when we say that Jesus is that Jesus is God. Um and uh yeah, sorry, I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna pull it up so I can do it one by one.

SPEAKER_05 42:11

But I'll uh I'll I'll I'll I'll chew on the one of the first lines there in the one Lord. Uh the word there for Lord is uh Kyrgios. Um and that would mean master. Um and I think that's helpful or important for us when we have to sit when we are affirming this, Jesus Christ as one Lord is that Jesus is not just a mere teacher, he's not the example or you know our therapist or life coach. Uh Jesus is Lord. So when we ask people um when they come to faith, you know, are you willing to submit to Jesus as Lord? And if you are, that changes a lot. That means you now have a new allegiance, that your ultimate allegiance is now Jesus. It's not Caesar and that in that day, which meant this was a very political thing for people to submit to in the one Lord Jesus Christ. Um your new allegiance is not the empire that you are a part of, and we could say it's not the United States, uh, your nation, it's not your political party, um, it's not your pastor, it's not your your spouse, it's not whatever the the algorithm, the the AI, right? It's it's Jesus. And so that it it immediately is calling you to say, like, what do I need to put before the Lord that I need to ask, Lord, I I don't want to give this up, but I'm you are my Lord, I'm giving this up for you. Uh whether it's that pet sin, um, whether it is um the the the the ways that you are living that are just contrary to the the to the ways of Jesus. And as we read the scriptures, as you read the New Testament, you start to realize like, oh, I'm living out of step with the gospel, uh, which is how uh Paul confronts Peter of like you're not walking in line with the truth of the gospel. Um so that's I think that one Lord part is really, really helpful and and that is a big affirmation. You know, and when we ask people like, Are you willing to follow Jesus? And that Lordship of Christ is one of the primary things. There's also the you know, the even just the the name Jesus, the name Jesus, Yeshua, uh, which means Yahweh saves. Um I think so affirming Jesus as Lord but also as savior is is two of the most important parts of this, I believe. Um and you know that Jesus actually does save us from our sin. Um go into the you know give Christ's salvation and your belief in the in his we're gonna get there on his death on the cross and resurrection from the grave. Um but then also emphasizing the you know Christ, the Messiah. Um, you know, I I joke about this in a sermon not too long ago. Christ was not his last name.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

One of his titles.

SPEAKER_05 44:43

One of his titles, right? He's he's the one, the the promised Messiah, the the promised king. And what type of king is this king is one who gives up his life, not you know hor you know lords it over others. Um so there's a lot that's even in that first line that when we affirm we're we're kind of a I mean it r this is why this creed is so essential that it it reorients your whole life towards Christ.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

Yeah.

Only Son And What Monogenes Means

SPEAKER_01 45:06

Yeah. And then in the and then that second part, the only the only begotten, that that can be the well that so it can be translated only or only begotten. The word is uh monogenes. Um and and it is uh it's a word that means that means kind of unique. Um the way in which and this and and I think what's all what's also important here is that there is the understanding that for us as uh members of the church and as those who are united to Christ, we are we are we are also sons, we are also sons of God, but we are not sons of God in the in the in the precise way that Jesus is is the son of God.

SPEAKER_05 45:44

Yeah, so when it says the only son of God, we're going, wait, I thought we were children of God.

SPEAKER_01 45:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 45:49

So what's the distinction?

SPEAKER_01 45:50

Um Jesus is Jesus is the Son of God by nature. So Jesus is not only the Son of God, but he is also God the that he is also God the Son. Um as in like the the the the So if and I and I I mentioned this before in thinking about the context of this entire of this entire uh creed, and you'll get in we'll get into that when we talk about uh begotten, not created. Um but but there are two uh even even here you get uh dicey, but I'll do this, I'll do this, I'll do this here. And I say there are two two kind of categories of being, you could say. God is not a category, just so we're just so we're clear. But two categories of being creator, creature. Question is which one is which one is Jesus? Um and and and there are and and the argument that Arius made was like was that well, no, like God the Father is the only one who is in that category of creator. So every everything else, without exception, is is in the is in the category of creature. Um so even when we talk about even when we talk about the son of the son of God, we're talking about someone who the father who the father created, um, even though he's at the height of all creation, it's someone who the father created. And one of the affirmations of this creed is that the father never created like the the the relationship between the father and son is not is not is not one of creation, it's one of it's one of it's one of begetting. So this this gets into uh begotten begotten of the father uh before all ages, because we have to understand kind of what that

Begotten Before All Ages

SPEAKER_01 47:26

word.

SPEAKER_05 47:26

Yeah, what is begotten? What does begotten mean?

SPEAKER_01 47:28

So you think about so you as a human being beget other human beings, your children. When you think about things that you can create, like you can create a painting or create a sculpture or those or those kinds of things, but those things are not things of your nature. You beget things, you beget things after your after your nature. So as a human being, you beget other human beings. Cats beget cats.

SPEAKER_05 47:51

In the genealogies, isn't it? Saying this person begets this person, right? You could use that language, that translation.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

Yeah. And so, and so that that that's the language, that's the language that we use. But um, particularly in uh Trinitarian relationships, there are there are ways in which uh, like I said, there are parallels between divine begetting and human begetting, and then there are ways in which they are not the same. So for example, um divine begetting does not happen in time, it doesn't happen in time. Um there there was never there there is never a because I mean and once again to use the language of time to describe divine relations is already an issue, but it's helpful, but it's helpful, at least as far as we can imagine it. There was never a time when the father was not father. Um there was never a time when the son was not son. There was never a time when the spirit was not spirit. God, God has always God has always been Father, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Um you you you can try to create some kind of logical priority there or whatever, but that's not ultimately it's not actually a a reflection of reality. The claim here that that that that that the son was begotten of the father before all ages is just is just to indicate that that the son has always the son has always been and the son has always been son. So also the father has always been and the father has always been father. Um the spirit has always been and the spirit has always been spirit. Um and that's and that's uh and that's what's affirmed. That's what's also affirmed here is is the is the etern is the eternality of the of of Christ.

SPEAKER_05 49:31

So was there a time when Jesus was not the son of God?

SPEAKER_01 49:37

No, when we use the when we use the also when we refer to when we refer to Jesus personally, we are referring to the eternal, like like like we're referring to the eternal son of God. Now, the son of God did become human, like before Jesus was born, the son of God was not a human being. Um but the but the but the but the but the son of God was still the son of God and was still and still uh and still existed. Um it's just that the word the word becomes flesh through um through the uh through the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit and the and the consent of the of the Virgin Mary.

SPEAKER_05 50:17

This is from uh the New King James uh version, and I'm not gonna read the whole uh Matthew genealogy, but it goes into all of the different, you know, um Azor begot Zadok and Zadok begot Achim and Achim begot Elohit, and down there and then it says, and Jacob begot Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. So you have begot, begot, begot, and then it's like and Jesus was born of of Joseph or of Mary. And you go, Oh, well, why is he not begotten there?

SPEAKER_01 50:44

Because fathers, because this because this is the other thing, language-wise in the scriptures, fathers beget their children, and Jesus does not have a human father. And so, and and Jesus, Jesus only has one actual father, and it's and it's God the and it's God the Father. Um, which is which is an em which is an important point. It's why it it it's it's it's why when when the incarnation is described in the creed, he's in he's incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin and the Virgin Mary.

SPEAKER_05 51:11

But um you want to hear something, buddy?

SPEAKER_01 51:14

Sure.

Virgin Birth Versus Immaculate Conception

SPEAKER_01 51:16

Sure.

SPEAKER_05 51:16

You gotta have to say yes, I guess. Uh we're watching uh my my family is now watching Lost Together. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 51:24

So I'm introducing our our boys to it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:27

And uh one of the characters, John Locke, uh, on on there. Um there's a there's a part when you you see his backstory and his his mother tells him, You you're special, you were immaculate conceived. And and and and Jordan goes, What does that mean? It was like, it means that like he didn't have a father, he just came to be which is not what immaculate conception is, but that's a sense.

SPEAKER_06 51:47

And and it and Jordan goes, is that real? And I was like, Well, uh It's a virgin birth.

SPEAKER_01 51:54

Uh immaculate conception.

SPEAKER_06 51:55

Yeah, I was like, well, there's the virgin birth, and he was like, but that's real? And I was like, well, for Jesus, but not for this, that doesn't matter. Not for any other human birth. That's a real thing. It's just like I love, I just, there's times you're like, I just love the naivety. Like, like, is that a thing?

SPEAKER_01 52:11

Let me so also as a as a clarification, let me do this for the good of for the good of the people. The the distinction between virgin birth and immacul and the immaculate conception. So the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is a is a doctrine, is a Catholic doctrine about Mary, and it is about Mary's own conception. It is that it is that Mary was conceived without original sin. That's that's what the that's what the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is.

SPEAKER_05 52:35

I'm messing things up.

SPEAKER_01 52:36

Yeah, that's what the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is. The when we so so so when when when we're what what we're talking about, when we talk about Jesus' birth, we're talking about the virgin, the virgin birth. Those are two different, those are two different things. We don't affirm, we don't affirm the immaculate, the immaculate conception of Mary. That's a that is a um, that's in many ways a man, a historic Catholic addition.

SPEAKER_05 53:01

Blowing my mind. I thought that was always referring to Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 53:04

Because immaculate means means sinless. It means it was referring to without sin. But no, it's a it's a reference to Mary's own conception. It's the it's the assumption that that in order to prepare Mary's womb for the Son of God, she had to be born without original sin. Okay, okay. Um, so that's a distinct mirac that's a a distinct miracle in the uh in the Catholic tradition.

unknown 53:26

Interesting.

SPEAKER_05 53:27

Okay. Anyway. So bonus.

SPEAKER_01 53:29

We've given you historical bonuses.

SPEAKER_05 53:31

Begotten, not made, and why is that important that Jesus was not made?

SPEAKER_01 53:36

Yeah, we're gonna, yeah, we're gonna I mean we could all these limits are self-imposed anyway. So we can we can talk about begotten, not created.

SPEAKER_05 53:43

I guess, I guess, yeah, we could save that. But that's begotten from the father. But I think begotten is is part of that.

SPEAKER_01 53:47

Yeah, well, and well, and it's and it's to show, like that's to show the the relationship between between the father and son, and specifically the intimacy between the father and son, the intimacy that Christ names, especially throughout throughout the Gospel of John, um that that intimacy is um yeah, I mean it there's there there's no way for that intimacy to be any tighter.

SPEAKER_05 54:10

Yeah. Um and so Jesus is at at that last line there it says from from the Father before all ages. So before time. This is this is this is eternal. This hurts people's brains. Yeah. That Jesus, there was a time that Jesus existed before time.

SPEAKER_01 54:29

Yeah, which means it wasn't a time.

SPEAKER_05 54:32

So if Jesus existed in before he was born, where was he?

SPEAKER_01 54:41

Was he everywhere? Everywhere that God is. I mean that's a that's that would be the that would be the answer. Like, which is which is we which also points to the miracle of the incarnation, is that it is like an intentional, an intentional localizing of himself in a way that is like hinted at in the Old Testament where where where God travels with his people in the tabernacle and and is present in the temple in a particular way. There is what happens in the incarnation is unique in the sense that like God personally walks around with you walks around with human beings. Like that is that's crazy. But you can also see the story of the scriptures as a story of God getting closer, getting closer and closer and closer and closer to his people, where the incarnation is not actually the pinnacle of it. Because after after the Son of God lives, dies, is raised, and sends the Holy Spirit, the Spirit actually dwells, actually continually dwells in the people of God. And even then, it's not it's not it's not done because the image that we get uh uh in the book of Revelation is that is is is well and in it's first Corinthians that that Paul knows the promises, the promise that God will be God will be all in all. But in the new heavens and new earth, like God will be God will be everywhere and will be and and and like tangibly everywhere in a redemptive way, in a way that we will experience and enjoy for the rest of eternity. Like that's what the the biblical story is is a is is a journey toward that toward that end.

Preexistence And The Nearness Of God

SPEAKER_01 56:23

Um which is awesome. Which is great.

SPEAKER_05 56:28

Amen. Amen. Um so if if he's from all time, um, you know, this is where the things that just break our our concept of God and uh you know, like the incarnation breaks your con like you, you're like, I don't understand how it's how that's possible. But I do think the the the things like um there being pre-incarn pre-incarnate Christ in the old testament, there's these moments where you're like this this angel that re that Joseph wrestles with, um uh that you go like, oh, is that is that Jesus? Um it seems like there's some there's some moments where you go, this seems like the angel of the Lord passage is referring more to um Jesus pre-incarnate. Um and but even then you're going, but then was that the God the Father or was it the God the Son? Even even the even the incarnation Jesus. You're like Jesus was born, but God the Father was not. Um so Jesus took on flesh, one of the one of the Trinity was crucified.

SPEAKER_01 57:23

All th all three persons of the Trinity were not crucified. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 57:26

But we also believe in one God, and so there's like the whole distinction of the Trinity is so like it it stretches your mind, which you know. I love that we have a God bigger than our our mind can understand. And we we try to put a box around it and say, no, this is the exact way to believe, and you know, that's okay. Um, Jesus did not begin at Christmas, right? There was a time um, you know, in the beginning was the John 1. In the beginning was the word. Doesn't say in the beginning the word came into existence. In the beginning was the word. So Jesus was there even then, already there. So rapid fire. Was Jesus created, Malcolm?

SPEAKER_01 57:59

No.

SPEAKER_05 58:00

Was there ever a time when the Son did not exist?

SPEAKER_01 58:02

No.

SPEAKER_05 58:02

Is Jesus actually God?

SPEAKER_01 58:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 58:04

Is Jesus the same person as the Father?

SPEAKER_01 58:06

No.

SPEAKER_05 58:08

Why do we care about any of this?

SPEAKER_01 58:09

Because it's true.

SPEAKER_05 58:12

That's our podcast. The old being pieces, ladies and gentlemen. I do think if if we if see this this truth, if Jesus is the only Lord, um, what that means for us is as we said before, that you know, that means that Caesar and that the that the the empire is not, um, but also there are institutions that we we now submit to that we allow to have exercising authority over us. But there are institutions, even pastors, that as we just heard today, need to be checked. That there are there are there are there are AI pastors and there are some abusive pastors, and there are there are there's some terrible theology and there's some good theology, but I think we have to go, Jesus is the only Lord, and now let's sit let's let's submit everything, test every spirit, test every thought in front of the one Lord Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 59:09

And and if if you ever encounter a pastor who is not pointing you to Jesus, there you go, get out. Yeah, because it's a way not because it's it's worse than a waste of your time. It it becomes an active corruption of your soul. And so and so and so if somebody is pointing you to male power or whatever, and and and and and there's no and there's no pointing to Jesus, get just get out because because Jesus says if you if you love me, you'll obey my commandments, not the random commandments given by random people who claim to speak in my name. You listen to you listen to him. And so, and so and so if the if you are in a context where somewhere where where where where the church is pointing you to Jesus constantly and incessantly, that's where you need to be. If people are pointing to themselves or pointing to any other category of people or whatever, don't waste, don't not, it's like it's it's even worse than wasting your time. It will actively corrupt, it'll actively corrupt your soul and your spiritual life. So, so so to anybody who, whatever church you go to, it make sure that you are going to a place that is constantly pointing you to Christ, feeding you with Christ, um, and calling you to and calling you to deeper communion with your savior.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:27

Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. You know, Malcolm, it's it's wild that sometimes we might get labeled uh woke um and liberal, and we are saying, as long as it lines up with Jesus, and that is our podcast on the Nicene Creed, that we are the woke liberals talking about the Nicene Creed. So if if someone labels you woke liberal and you're talking about Jesus and the Lordship of Christ and the Nicene Creed, you know, take that badge and run with it.

Final Warnings And How To Respond

SPEAKER_05 1:00:59

Uh hey, y'all, thank you for so much for uh listening to these podcasts. Uh if you find any of it helpful, would you share it? If you find some of it offensive, like some of these pastors, don't share them. Um call them out. Call it out. Speak truth. Um, but uh, as we heard before, if you have questions, send those in. Hello at theology pieces.com. You can check some of us out on Twitter. Are we on that?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:26

I don't know. But I'm on threads, and I'm gonna be on substack soon. So there you go.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:31

Uh give a raid review. As always, a helpful way to fight against the evil algorithm overlords. Let's unite against the powers. Hooray! Bye y'all.