Theology In Pieces
Join Slim Thompson, Malcolm Foley and many more to discuss and 'Apply the Gospel' into little bite sized pieces every week. email hello@theologyinpieces.com to ask questions or reach out.
Theology In Pieces
87 - Your Own Personal Jesus
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Obama's Cheesecake Factory joke, spurs the guys to share their deep thoughts on this very important chain restaurant.
Manly Maga's Mustang Jesus is Full of Testosterone. Christian Youtuber Gabe Poirot tells tales of heaven from his 18 day coma and reveals this habit of creating a “personal Jesus” who fits our tribe and our timeline.
From there we talk about “Jersey Christianity,” after Megachurch pastor Josh Howerton tweeted, "That is not a pastor, that is a Biblically-defined false teacher and historically-defined heretic that (it saddens me to say) we had to excommunicate and remove from our church planting network. He currently walks as an enemy of the faith, and I pray he comes back to Jesus Christ." And how different that was from his reception of infamous racist Bo French as described here.
Then we get to the heart of the Nicene Creed and why its Christology still matters. This is not abstract trivia. The word homoousios guards the claim that Jesus is fully God, not a creature and not a lesser deity. That protects Christian worship, anchors biblical interpretation, and keeps salvation from collapsing into wishful thinking. If you’ve ever wondered why creeds matter, why Arianism was such a big deal, or how to stop projecting your own image onto Jesus, this episode is for you.
Nicene Creed :
We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;
of the same essence as the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven;
he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
and was made human.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried.
The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again with glory
to judge the living and the dead.
His kingdom will never end.
And we believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life.
He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.
He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come. Amen.
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Welcome Back And Why We’re Here
SPEAKER_02Hey, hey, hey, hey! Hey y'all. It's been too long. But we're making it back. That's right.
SPEAKER_03You thought we were dead. You thought we were the Houston Texans. But no.
SPEAKER_07Did they weird? They think that about us.
SPEAKER_03People are thinking these things. The Ada Baggies. But no, we are the Baylor Bears. No, we are the uh uh what Malcolm, you you follow a lot of sports. You're a sports guy.
SPEAKER_08We're just we're the pastors of mosaic like that, is what we are.
SPEAKER_03Welcome to Theology Pieces. We hope to rebuild your theology that the church, the world, or somebody has shattered to pieces, and we are your host, Slim and Malcolm. Uh yes, it's been a minute. We are pa we we apologize. Uh you know, life can happen and be busy. And um one day when you guys subscribe so much and you know donate to our uh tithely so much that we don't have, you know, we we we don't have other things to do, but we do. Um so this is this is just out of love. And because it's out of love, uh, would you would you show some love and uh like, subscribe, all the all the other fun things.
SPEAKER_08Love that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. Uh but today, Malcolm, oh man. Guess what? Today we are going to reach out and we're gonna touch faith.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_03Do you know what I'm saying? Uh you are gonna be able to get your own personal Jesus.
SPEAKER_04Oh, oh dear.
SPEAKER_03And so today we're gonna talk about having our own personal Jesus. Malcolm's so excited for that that way of discussing today's discussion on uh the Dicene Creed. Uh but before we go to the fourth century and church councils, uh, let's talk about something a little bit more important. Um I think a a new segment I want to have, and I don't have a fun um, you know Oh, maybe I do. Maybe I do. Let's let's have a segment called Just for Fun!
SPEAKER_04Oh boy.
SPEAKER_03Is that is that something that you gotta let us know if that's the worst or if that's something anyways, I want to have a just for fun seg segment. There's so much in the world that's just a little rough, a little a little discouraging, a little dark. And so, Malcolm, just for fun.
Cheesecake Factory Discourse And Nostalgia
SPEAKER_03Um have you seen some of the conversation online around uh this restaurant, the Cheesecake Factory?
SPEAKER_08Yes.
SPEAKER_03Did you did you see uh do you you you know the background for this?
SPEAKER_08Obama's quote Obama's Cheesecake Factory about the what he's done to the about what Trump's done in the White House?
SPEAKER_03I think our I think the church fathers would would would be glad that this is what we're discussing right now. So if you missed it, uh here here's Obama a couple days ago.
SPEAKER_00Does anybody really think this guy in the White House right now is spending all that time thinking about these issues? I mean, I I don't know if you've noticed, but he seems very focused on home renovations. There's gold everywhere. What's up with the gold?
SPEAKER_03Hilarious. One of the most gifted sporadors uh of our nation's history.
SPEAKER_08I just love I love that Obama is in his is in his comedian era.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_08My man is just my man just out here living a life. That's what he's like.
SPEAKER_07Glad I don't have to be president anymore. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I mean, what a lie. What a lie. He's not wrong about the amount of gold. Um, but then there it's just like it's starting to fuel this like crazy discourse online that are like people are saying, you know, Obama, you know, call it out the Cheesecake Factory. Like, how elite is of him because you know, us normal Americans, that's what we long to go do. It's if we can save enough money just to go go spend it at the Cheesecake Factory. And then like, do you realize that the point of that joke was the Cheesecake Factory is like it's one of these fancier restaurants that are only in like the nicer malls? I was I grew up in Houston, it was the galleria, and it it was one of these nicer ones, so like, yes, it costs money to go there, but that was the point. Like that the the White House is and it's also like very over-the-top done. He's like Brock, you know, Hussein Obama or whatever. Oh, I just did I pulled a Trump.
SPEAKER_07Um talking about Sadafu. Gosh. Oh boy. I repent. Uh what? What my question here, Malcolm. What's your favorite news station?
SPEAKER_03Uh is is the Cheesecake Factory actually good? Uh, or is it just a restaurant that gives you a 47-page menu?
SPEAKER_08It does give you a 47-page menu.
SPEAKER_03To make you feel like you're having a luxury experience.
SPEAKER_08And then if there's a 47-page menu, chances are they're doing everything at some level of mediocrity. That's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_03Uh that's just that's all right so so do you agree that Cheesecake Factory is meh?
SPEAKER_08I mean, I like it. See, the thing is, I my I it's I like it. I I like it, I like it for what it I like it for what it is, which is my relationship with most things. I take I take into account what the thing is and then I judge it accordingly.
SPEAKER_03So you went to the Cheesecake Factory. Yeah, yeah. So you you were you're not one of the elitist, uh, like like like some.
SPEAKER_08Um what I mean, I don't know if I mean I'm I may be above it now, but no, I jokes, jokes.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, what was your what was your uh menu item? Do you remember what you got there? Oh. The cheesecake?
SPEAKER_08No, nothing.
SPEAKER_03It was the appetizers, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_08No, I'm trying to I don't try to remember it because it's it's been a very long time since I've been to the cheesecake factory. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So yeah. Was there another restaurant that was like close?
SPEAKER_08There's not one close to is there one close to us here? I don't know. I don't think so.
SPEAKER_03It might be Dallas. Yeah, I'm yeah.
SPEAKER_08Um but and if I'm going to Dallas, I'm not gonna go to Dallas for the Cheesecake Factory. So just saying.
SPEAKER_07That's the truth.
SPEAKER_03Nothing against it.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I mean, hey, but I'm not gonna drive an hour and a half to go to the Cheesecake Factory.
SPEAKER_03Was there a restaurant that was like the nicer one that your your family would be like, hey, we're looking forward to going to this?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_08It might have been the Cheesecake Factory. Okay, okay, so I'll try to get a cord for you. No, see, I I'll have to ask my siblings. This is bringing nostalgia back. I'll have to ask my siblings what it what it was.
SPEAKER_03Whenever we would go to nice restaurants as kids, I hated it so much. No. Why? Because as a kid, you don't want to spend time waiting on food. And that's like part of the going to the nice you're like there to like be with one another. Ambiance. As young, rambunctious kids, I I I relate to my kids. Uh lack of patience and chaos. Um, I understood that. Like the the meals we would go to after church is where it was most painful. Parents would always go to, oh, what's it? Um uh Longhorn, not Longhorn say, what's the Oh, Texas, not Texas Roadhouse. No, there's one here over by uh uh Los Cucos and uh Longhorn Steak.
SPEAKER_08Oh, saltgrass.
SPEAKER_03Saltgrass, that was it. That's where we would go with the that that brown bed uh bread, which is good. It's good.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But it would it took forever after church, and it was just like can we just not, you know, but where what do you have a spot now that's like your fancy one that you go to?
SPEAKER_08Like it's like treat yourself. It's gotta be steak. And so if I treat myself, it's gonna be to steak. Although now, because we're in because we're in Texas, I can get really good quality meat just from H from just from H E B. So now I'll just make steaks for myself. Um But let me think of where I go. That's just a question of where the where the best steaks in Waco are.
SPEAKER_03So I used to I used to have steak as like my like last meal.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I I've I I just don't know.
SPEAKER_08Is it tacos now for you?
SPEAKER_03Oh definitely. But like I possibly smoked ribs or chicken. Um but steak, I every time I get it now, even at saltgrass or whatever, I'm like, I start chewing forever, then I do the uh sorry, this is probably not great for the the podcast. I'm like, I can't swallow this, so I'll grab the napkin and oh wow, wow. I just I'm like, am I what is steak? Am I getting it wrong?
SPEAKER_08What doneness, what doneess do you get your steak at? Medium? Okay, that's I do too.
SPEAKER_03Do I need to go well done because I'm like old?
SPEAKER_08Don't do that.
SPEAKER_03I know right? Don't do that. I hate think that's so sick.
SPEAKER_08That's it is pretty sure it's in the scriptures.
SPEAKER_03But I I think I think now I went to where'd I go? Um Chick-fil-A with the family. We don't have a lot, we have five people in our family. Yeah. And we walked out of there and it didn't feel like we went over the top. It was 70 some dollars. Yeah. That I'm like, um, you know, I'm just gonna eat at home. Like, so I feel like that's like fast food is so expensive now that I'm like, whatever. I'm just gonna eat at home. Um so thanks, economy. Um I wish I had like a there we go. That's for the economy.
SPEAKER_08Great. Uh you know what time it is? What time is that?
Heaven Tourism And Mustang Jesus
SPEAKER_08June. Oh boy.
SPEAKER_03Uh this one came from uh a little while ago. I saw this and I I I stashed it away. Um there was this guest uh of a man a man named Gabe Poirot. Poirot, um, who is a already you're gonna love it, a Christian YouTuber. Love that for us who claimed he spent 18 days in heaven and encountered Jesus in ways that he says changed everything.
SPEAKER_08Um so see here's the thing that that makes me upset.
SPEAKER_03Hold on, hold on, hold on. Don't worry. You'll must 18 days. You all must be upset upset about. So he um he he uh well it this is something that happened back in 2021. Uh he flipped backward while riding on an electronic skateboard at around 30 miles per hour without a helmet, uh landed, hit his head, cracked his skull, and he was in this uh this coma for 18 days in which he describes uh this this scenario this way. You ready for this? This this is gonna blow your mind.
SPEAKER_0118 days you were in that coma, you had this experience, you came face to face with your savior, and then you woke up. How has your life been different since that experience?
SPEAKER_06Yeah. Now with every single person I meet, I tell them of the love of Christ and that he did it all for them. There you go. He he died and rose again. And also, I love how you know all these other testimonies. They didn't meet a female Jesus, they didn't meet a soft or a passive Jesus. Jesus is a man. And especially in America, he's been misrepresented. And especially even, you know, there's so many cultural things that present him as if as if he's some just tolerant guy. It's not the Jesus I met. He's a lion. But he's not a lion angry against me, he's a lion angry for me. Oh. He's a mustang on my behalf. He did it all for me.
SPEAKER_07He's a Mustang on my behalf.
SPEAKER_06He was 5'11, like six feet, yet as tall as eternity. Um hit it like an ocean of love, yet his eyes were burning white and red at the same time. Um and I mean, talk about testosterone, like a Mustang. I'm telling you. Like a Mustang the Lion of Judah. And there's a roar within his voice.
SPEAKER_0118 days you're like a Mustang!
SPEAKER_07Alright, I'm sorry, but that the imagery is is just great. That's amazing. Sounds so normal. It's so normal. Tell people about wild without it. Because all of a sudden you're like, wait, what? Man, if I just it just if you just just think of a real man, and that's that's what I saw. Dude's a Mustang. We got testosterone jacked up. Wait, what? IT Jesus. What was that first description? It was a Mustang. What is it? He's a Mustang for you or something like that. Is that what he said? Yeah, that's what I was saying.
SPEAKER_03No, no, he's he's a lion not against you, but a lion against you.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, a lion for you. And then he used it to the Mustang.
SPEAKER_03Uh but talk about testosterone.
SPEAKER_07Wild. Wild.
SPEAKER_03If you meet Jesus, your response is talk about testosterone. Like, what? Why is that a thing?
SPEAKER_08Oh my gosh. And so I want to be careful here because Jesus was he was a Jewish man. Look, here's my thing. Here's my thing. Right?
SPEAKER_03He was.
SPEAKER_08Here's my thing. If I and this is why, in my living will or my or my advanced directive, is uh give me give me three days and then let me go. Because if I'm spending 18 days with the Lord, I don't want to be here. I don't want to come back.
SPEAKER_03Why would I want to come back? With that lion of test that Mustang of testosterone, you don't want to come back to work.
SPEAKER_07We're already good. Like if I if I'm hanging out with Jesus, I'm not leaving. Like I'm not, like, I'm not. I don't care at that point. At that point, I'm done. Like, that's literally what I'm aiming my entire life toward. Why would I anyway? Yeah that's that was what I was going to say before when you even said the 18 days thing.
SPEAKER_08I was like, if if that's what I was actually experiencing, don't bring me back.
SPEAKER_07Uh but then besides the point, the whole uh apparently America has feminized Jesus.
SPEAKER_08He's um he's not soft. It's not, he's not soft. He's a man. Right. Jesus the Mustang. That's that's that's our next uh sermon series slip. Jesus was the Mustang. Our Christology series. Jesus, Jesus the Mustang on your behalf.
SPEAKER_03So like this is like I like go go get Zach Wagner's book on uh toxic masculinity.
SPEAKER_08And then his second book Meta Virtue.
SPEAKER_03But this like makes me think about like this people trying to describe or define Jesus in these masculine ways of saying what is like you know Christian masculinity. And yes, Jesus did confront powerful men, but he also wept. Uh he welcomed children, right? He he submitted himself to suffering. Like this is can we have a full orb Jesus? It just it was you you see I saw that clip and it was on it was um go back to the what news am I consuming? That was on Fox News again. I don't have uh it was shared on this thing called X uh slash Twitter.
SPEAKER_07Um and it was perfectly fine until it was so fine, yeah.
SPEAKER_03But then but then but so but was it fine though? Because it made me go, okay, there's the masculine part that like really was absurd and over the top. But the begin the the whole premise of what some might call heaven tourism of those who had near-death experiences, yeah, experience uh a sample of heaven and then come back to share it. You remember that book?
SPEAKER_08That's what they think it would be.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that book that was very popular, that kid uh Heaven is for Real. And I remember walking in every family Christian bookstore and every uh Lifeway bookstore, and that that cutout was there, and there was millions of copies sold. And this guy is now, as at least on his uh Twitter stuff, like you know, New York Times bestseller. So I'm guessing he's got a book out of this as well. And so just like Do you do you buy it? No.
SPEAKER_08But that's because but that's also because like I have I mean, you know, all of my reading has been almost exclusively people's uh, you know, Greek and Byzantine theologians from the fourth to the fourteenth century. And these are and and some of these people are people who like who have claimed to like see claimed to see the Lord.
SPEAKER_03Um was it was about the same thing that what this guy explained?
SPEAKER_08It it wasn't there was no Mustang, but dripping of masculine. But like but the but but the test um and you know, and it may be true of this guy that the test is that uh like the primary response, especially whenever when you see the Lord, the primary response is is is repentance. Um and you know, and I'm I'm not gonna say anything about about this guy's about this guy's life, but what I what what I what I hear, especially in the framing of Christ, it's not it's not primarily through the lens of the way that the Lord has um presented himself in scripture, it's largely there's a particular when I say culturally acceptable, I mean in the particular culture that he's embedded in. There's this when whenever you feel this need to defend what you think is the masculinity of Jesus, like that like that just indicates to me that you're concerned about things that you don't actually need to be concerned about.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah, it was so odd that that was like the the emphasis, or that was the takeaway. But I mean, it's just I I have to say that's you know But again, I like the whole premise of this idea of this heaven tourism. I go, like I don't doubt that God can show up in a theophany and in and in but like we have we have the Bible and we have resurrection accounts in the Bible. Yeah um we have people telling us about what what Christianity and Jesus is like and what heaven will be Jesus tells us what heaven will be, yeah. But we're we're so obsessed with these like first person modern day narratives as if like that's more carries more weight than scripture itself.
SPEAKER_08Because we don't actually we don't actually think it's real. I mean there's this that's that's what it that's what it comes down to and so so we hear these accounts and they somehow become like they somehow make us more confident or whatever. I'm like that's not I don't need that like I don't I don't need I don't need that. Um also also what I will and also I think what we what we get from scriptures is is that what we will experience in the in the new heavens and earth is also greater than anything that we could ever imagine anyway. And as I and as I was saying, like once I'm there, like once I'm actually there, I'm not coming back. If I did, I would be depressed. Just absolutely and totally depressed. Because I've experienced because if that were true with all the soft Christianity on this earth, because if that were true, I would have ex I would have experienced reality as it truly is, and and and that and it's just not I it's not something I'm going to experience until I actually die or until Christ returns. And when it does, we're done. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Um
Heresy Accusations And Jersey Christianity
SPEAKER_03one more one more terrible tweet for us to discuss, Malcolm. Yes. Uh, this this is from your favorite pastor, uh guy you look up to and you uh we try to emulate your ministry around a guy named Josh Howerton.
SPEAKER_05Uh definitely my favorite.
SPEAKER_03Uh he's repl responding to another tweet. I'll just read his first and see what you think. He says, This is not a pastor. That is a biblically defined false teacher and historically defined heretic. And then it saddens me to say we had to excommunicate and remove from our church planning network. He currently walks as an enemy of the faith, and I pray he comes back to Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_08Yikes.
SPEAKER_03Who do you think he might be talking about?
SPEAKER_08Uh is it somebody saying that they're socialist?
SPEAKER_03Worse. What could be worse than socialism? It is uh he's responding to a pastor in Austin, Texas, uh Josh Harton's pastor up in Dallas, uh, and uh of Life Sure, Life Points? I forgot. Um, anyways, um, but the pastor in in Austin, Zach Lambert. Oh, yeah. And he posts uh he posts uh uh on Twitter. Yeah, so he's uh on October 23rd, he said, I'm a husband, father, lifelong Texan. I've been a Christian since I was five. Yeah, pastor since I was 19. I prof I just proudly voted for James Talarica, Gina Hinosa, John Rosenthal, and Vicky Goodwin. Yeah, yeah. Uh and a picture of uh him and Talarico. Um nothing super controversial about that that uh that tweet.
SPEAKER_08If you vote for Democrats, you're clearly an aposte.
SPEAKER_03That's I'm pretty sure it's in the tsunami of of rebukes that he's gotten from this post, though. So there's from Josh Howarton.
SPEAKER_08Um there is he knew he was gonna get those. He knew he was gonna get those comments.
SPEAKER_03Sure. But this is oh, here it is. Uh Howarton's senior pastor of Lake Point Church. Yeah. Uh and um, but also uh pastor uh another mega church pastor, Jack Graham, called him apostate. Um and that's so interesting. Yeah, Graham says, we saw this coming with Zach Lambert, removed him as a seminary intern at Preston Wood in a sag case to have apostasy on display now.
SPEAKER_07Apostasy?
SPEAKER_08I love how I mean like I'm not gonna call somebody an apostate for voting for Trump. And I or uh I'm well honest, we're in an election season, so I don't want to say anything. Uh but but like the and I you know I mentioned this in the ser in the server several weeks ago. Oh, like my like who you vote for is actually not it's not super high on my priority list. It's something that you should you should be wise about, especially in thinking about the ways in which the the policies that people create and advocate for actually like um seriously affect people's lives. But like to use the language of apostasy in the way that some of these people do is wild.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And before going there, I just want to also point out this what is the selection. Outrage from uh Josh Howerton where he says this about James Tallerico that this this heretic that they had to excommunicate, uh apostasy. Oh my goodness. And then and then um he had one Bo French come to his church. Oh he says, Super excited to check out Lake Point Church this weekend with Josh Howard and we need more pastors like Josh who are willing to engage in the public square. To which Howard replies, an honor to have you and meet you.
SPEAKER_05Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_03And if you remember from one of our episodes, uh we we covered a little bit of Bo French because Bo French a little racist, just a little over-the-top racist.
SPEAKER_08Full sprinkle.
SPEAKER_03Uh particularly around the the UT game and you know, seeing all this these uh Indian students, and he's like, This is far worse than anyone could have imagined. You know, people actually celebrating Texas football. I mean, yeah, we shouldn't celebrate Texas football, but you know, let's be equally dismissive of all this.
SPEAKER_07Goodness, no.
SPEAKER_03No. So this is the the wild part to me is this this illustrates to me the the only thing that matters is what jersey are you wearing.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, man.
SPEAKER_03It's it's jersey politics. We're like, are you on my side or not? But to me, I think what's absurd, like I get like I that is one, I I it confounds me. Um how how do you ever go past that? But what I think is wild is that this is with Christianity that it's Jersey Christianity that that is more important than Jersey, then just like that are you a Christian? It's what version of Christianity are you?
SPEAKER_08Like it's just tiring to me.
SPEAKER_03So well, when do you call someone a heretic? I think there are there are times, but you're saying anyone who's when the tradition of the church would call them a heretic.
SPEAKER_08That's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_03Like, yeah, it's like we we've made heresy just a Christian who I disagree with.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, folks just throw that folks folks throw that around as though the risk is not like actual damnation. And like, and I'm just like, you you oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_03Like you can disagree with someone's politics and say, you know, they're they're they're their political judgment's terrible, but it's not telling me about their their moral and spiritual life. It you can say, I disagree with you, and that's okay. But we're saying these are people are heretics and they're they're a nap, they're excommunicated, but it gets the people going, man. And so we have to get the people going. We're saying, no, that's fine. We're excited to have you, not yeah, kick them out.
SPEAKER_08Like, oh just don't vote for the democrats.
SPEAKER_03Don't vote for the democrats. Um, so your voting advice would be what? You don't care. No, I'm just what you're saying is not entirely.
SPEAKER_08Uh I mean in the sense that like, I mean, I could I I care because you next week, man. You are the end of the world. You are you are acting like this is this is a small I mean voting is a small piece of your political engagement in the world.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_08Uh but for me, like your primary, and I said this in the anti-greed gospel, your primary political engagement with the world ought to be in in the um I I I missed the opportunity. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You said so what what book was that?
SPEAKER_08The anti-greed gospel, which is a book that all of you should have.
SPEAKER_03Um the 2026 uh book of the year or something.
SPEAKER_08Uh well, so nominate it was a finalist for the Christian for the Christian book award. Um, the 2026 Christian book award in Faith and Culture. But um your primary political commitment ought to be in the build, so for the Christian of the building of Christian community that bears witness to the kingdom of God, that is then an invitation to the world. Because the fact of the matter is that the your no no amount of voting is going to make the empires of the world into the kingdom of God. Like it's just not gonna, that's that's not what's gonna happen. Now, by your voting, you may be able to contribute to a reality where fewer people die unjustly, which is great. Like those, but that's the but like that's the height of my expectations of the state. I just want fewer people to die unjustly. Yeah. Um, and uh, but when I think about what the goal is for the communities that we form, particularly in the church, I was like, my expectations are very, very high of those communities and very, very low of the state. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So yeah. I think all this just makes me reinforms uh or re uh iterates to me how important it is for us to actually look to scripture to tell us like who is God and who is Jesus? Because they're telling us this is who Jesus is and that this is what it looks like to follow Christ, because they have decided this is what they have, as we you know, I joked in the beginning, their own personal Jesus, and their own personal Jesus wears this jersey. And if you aren't wearing that jersey, you aren't on his team, versus asking what is scripture telling us as the most important thing, like yes, there are I do I do think there are pretty important things for us to agree upon to be able to say, like, no, we are Christians. Um, but their their level is so much uh shallower um than I would have I would have said like that's the thing that that makes you not a part of the team. I think that's why it's a good yeah, as we transition into this discussion on uh the Nicene Creed, uh this is where I would I would have gone. Does does Zach, uh, does James Halarico does they do they do they affirm Nicene Creed? That is a much different conversation. Um, but again, it not necessarily on like whether I vote for the person or not, but I'm just saying like how you how you how you approach and and and talk about other human beings on Twitter and whatnot.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, yeah, and well, and here's the thing, like I'm perfectly fine with with there being ethical standards to the faith and like and and saying that if you approve of particular ethical things that like that that places you out outside of the uh uh outside of the fold. But I but but that's not primarily and well and there's and there's a sense in which uh if I want to be if I want to be charitable, uh what what they will claim in making that claim of apostasy is that they'll say that because of because of particular policy stances, this person is not, like this person is not a uh is not a is not a Christian. And I'm like, uh the the fact of the matter is is that every single every single American politician that runs on any platform is going to run on unchrist like things. Whenever we when and I guess that like that's just like that's how states that's how states work. And so like so any of us could make the claim that you vote for this person and you're whatever. Um and so uh my it's that's an element of my thinking about all this stuff too.
SPEAKER_03It's just people yeah, it's just uh it brought me back to uh uh I went to the MLK 50 event in Memphis with my wife, and uh at the end of it, there was uh one infamous John Piper uh questioning Martin Luther King Jr.'s faith. Sure. And he said famously, and I remember watching people walk out at the end of it, and I'm like, did he reach the end? Did he go to heaven? I don't know. And I was like, what? And this was the last keynote speech of this.
SPEAKER_08And honestly, we don't know, but like you just but also for you to do that at a for you to do that at a conference that's commemorating him is a little bit wild. A little bit wild. So let's talk about Jesus.
SPEAKER_03Let's
Turning To The Nicene Creed
SPEAKER_03talk about Jesus. All right, we I get to unpack. Man, it's been too long since we've done the Nicene Creed. No, let's get back to it. It's so good.
SPEAKER_08It is great.
SPEAKER_03Do you realize how good this is, Malcolm?
SPEAKER_08Yes, yes, I do.
SPEAKER_03Now, I don't know if you do, Malcolm.
SPEAKER_08Do you realize That's why I recite it on almost a daily basis?
SPEAKER_03I keep trying for us to have to do the Nicene Creed every Sunday at the church, but Malcolm's like, no, it's too much. It's the exact opposite.
SPEAKER_07That's the exact opposite of the situation, ladies and gentlemen. It is me who says, let's just do the Nicene Creed every week. And it's living like, we got other things to I'm like, no, we don't. I gotta just do this so people can memorize the creed.
SPEAKER_03Anyway, all I'm saying, I was like, can we just do it every Sunday? Every Sunday.
SPEAKER_07And I'm like, great, let's let's do that every Sunday. It's like, no, let's do these other things.
SPEAKER_03Not the lead liturgy on Sunday. I can see biting his teeth through it, like, I've gotta do these other things.
SPEAKER_07Oh my gosh. It's fine.
SPEAKER_03Okay,
God From God And Light From Light
SPEAKER_03okay. Uh so we're we we here uh to review. Uh we began. We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible, and in the one Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, begotten from the Father before all ages. So that's where we've been. Yep. Today.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Uh in this category of Jesus, under the section of of the of the Son. Who else is Jesus? Who who is he? It says, God from God, light from light, true God from true God, yeah, begotten, not made, of the same essence as the Father. Homo Usios. Through him all things were made.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So, Malcolm, uh, first first thoughts from this section on on the the Christology.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_03From what I understand, you think Christology is somewhat important to the faith as a Christian.
SPEAKER_08I think it is at the core of everything.
SPEAKER_03There is, there are there are rumors that you actually like Christology.
SPEAKER_08I'm a big, big fan. I deeply do believe that it's all that matters. When when the Son of God took on flesh, the cosmos was uh was um was in a sense altered in a uh in a sweeping in a sweeping sense. Um the uh so uh textually I want to think about Colossians one one fifteen to twenty. So Paul says this He is Christ is the is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation, for in him all things all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers, all things have been created through him and for him. He him he himself is before all things, and in him all things hold together. He is he is the head of the body, the church. He is he is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he might come to have first place in everything. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him God was pleased to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, by making peace through the blood of his cross. Uh and one of the reasons why I love Maximus the Confessor is because I feel like Maximus the Confessor's entire corpus is essentially these six verses made into a cosmic theology. Um a cosmic account of human beings and what and what and what we're created for, a cosmic account of Christ, a cause all these things. Okay, so
Homoousios And Why Divinity Saves
SPEAKER_08the light from light, true God from true God. Uh the the main thing that that presses is that um is is that the father, the father, and the father and the son are are God in the same well basically in the exact same sense except uh except their relation to one another. So basically the only the the main thing that distinguishes the father, son, and holy spirit is their is their relation to one another. But they are all they are all entirely God. Um and there's also a sense in which like when you when you when you consider when you consider the son, you are also considering the father and the spirit. Um when you consider the and and and our knowledge of the father comes uh by the Holy Spirit through the Son. And so all so there's this this is any conception of this of the Son is also uh is also Trinitarian. But to say light from light um and true God from true God, it's it's saying that when when we say that Jesus is God, we're not saying that he's like less God than the Father or or whatever. We're saying that um the the the the Father is the source of the Son, but that but that language of source is not is not a language of hierarchy, it's not a language of um of uh superiority, superiority or inferiority or anything like that. Um they are they are god in the they're God in the same in the same sense. This then this then goes into the begotten, not made point, because and I think I mentioned this in our last podcast that um uh if you're looking at whether whether Christ is in the creator or creature or creature category, it's that it's that Christ, Christ himself is not is not a is not a creature. Um he is the creator because he is be because he's begotten by the father, he is of the he is of the same substance as the father. So this is so this is the other point, uh, because this was the most significantly debated word in the entire creed, which is homo homousios, which means same same being or same same substance, um or or or essence. And um and and and that is as opposed to homoousios, which is which is of similar of similar substance.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_08Um, like it's not that Jesus is like God, it's that Jesus is God. And part and one of the reasons to also affirm this, which which which Athanasius presses is that um it is only it is only God that can make us like God. And this is and this is what um and this is where we're we're uh in in on the incarnation. Athanasius says that that the that the that the Son of God uh he he enfleshed he he he he enfleshed himself so that we might be made God like essentially. Um the short the short version is the son of God became man so that man might become God. Um but um but also uh a point a point there um it what it's or what it's what he what he what he's saying is not just that we might become God, but that we might be made like God. Because God is the one who is doing that work in us. Um but uh but the only but the but the church was really was really emphatic about affirming the full divinity of Christ because it's also this affirmation of our own of our own future too. Like it it's it's it's um uh yeah, it's it's my like my summary of the incarnation is that the Son of God takes on flesh in order to share everything that he has with us. If he's not if he's not God, he can't share divinity with he can't share divinity with us. Yeah, if he's just like if he's if he's just like a souped up, kind of just a souped up human being, then like then that's then that becomes like the threshold of our of our hope. But but but but because in the incarnation we see we see the Son of God become fully human, except like and and human in every sense except for except for except for sin, um we we we we also get this picture of what true of what true humanity of what true humanity is. And we get and by um and in baptism, which is a baptism into into Christ's death, we get to actually participate in his what what what what what what many of the fathers will call in his in his deified humanity. Um that is but but but but that horizon is only is only open if we if we are really really um insistent on affirming the full divinity, the full divinity of Christ.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_08There's a lot there, but I think I think tell me if I'm wrong.
SPEAKER_03You could argue that this point here uh on the Christology um and really the Homoousius section is almost the reason Chalcedon, the Council of Nicaea, uh exists. Um because this is Arian um you know making this argument. Arian was a worship leader, uh Arius was a worship leader, uh, and he actually you can see like he's not trying to say something negative about Jesus. He's he he believes he's he believes that God is so great and other that you you it almost feels uh blasphemous to say that there is someone um as high and mighty as him. And so you can see kind of like the the logic behind Arius' thinking there. Yeah. Um and so he would argue he was arguing um for almost everything um except with the the creed except for that homooysis uh versus homoousias, and that and that's instead of being of the same essence as the father, he's saying he's like the father. And so it you know, as you said, like if Jesus doesn't share in the exact same essence, then he can't communicate the father to us. He yeah, but Jesus does communicate something about God. So if but if Jesus is only like the Father, then he doesn't reveal the fullness, he doesn't he's not the fullness of God, he's he's something of God. Um I like um I like diet Dr. Pepper. That's my my my go-to drink. It it is somewhat like Dr. Pepper. It's not the fullness. They're two different things. You if you bought the the the the sugary one versus the diet chemically you know created one, uh it's it's not the full thing. And so then the question then is if Jesus isn't the fullness of God, what parts of God do I not know? What parts of God are are are are being withheld from me in this mysterious way? And that can lead us down kind of a you know a disturbing path to say that we don't have a f the fullness or uh enough to know about God. Obviously, there's so much out there that we we still don't know about God, and you know there's a mystery that I think we ought we ought to uh acknowledge. But if we're saying there's not enough out there, then I think that that that becomes the problem.
SPEAKER_08That's another
Scripture Context Tradition And Proof Texting
SPEAKER_08point. I want to say that that even the arguments that Arius is making, he's making them as particular points of scriptural interpretation. So for so for example, the text that the text I just read is one that Arius and Athanasius would would interpret differently. So for example, this is uh Colossians 1:15. Christ is the is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. Now, you can interpret that a few different ways because you can because you can hear that verse and say, firstborn of all creation. Oh, well, then it sounds like Christ is in the category of creation. Yeah. He's just like at the top of it, yeah. Which is which is the argument that Ari that Arius that Arius makes.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_08Um, and and there are other and there are other there are other texts, for example, when uh when Christ says that the Father is greater than is greater than he is, and things like that. Like, like these things that um that considered barely could lead you to an Aryan interpretation. Yeah um and it's why that like it's why this particular heresy is really, really um persistent. I mean, it's it's it's persistent in the uh uh in the church. But I think it's important, at least for the Colossians text, to understand what we mean by firstborn of, or as some translations will say, firstborn over over all over all creation. It's to it's to clarify what that means because what the following because of what the following verses say. For in him, all things in heaven and on earth were were created, things visible and invisible. All things have been created through him and for him. He himself is before all things, and in him all things hold together. Like, like all of these descriptions undermine this assumption that Christ is just a part of creation. It's very, it's very clear that the way that Paul is is describing Christ is like, no, like he's he's describing the creator, the one, the one for whom all creation exists, um, and through whom all uh all creation happens. And so um, so that context is also really important. It's also this is also a point just on biblical interpretation. It's really easy to make particular arguments when you just proof text them with individual text taken taken out of taken out of context.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_08But this is why not only is context important, but also the tradition of the of the church is important. Because if you if you come if you come across a text and you get some some like radical interpretation of this text that you feel like nobody has ever had before, like that should make you nervous. I think it should make you nervous because we've got we have we have we have we have that now thousands of years of of of content of contending for the faith of people who um I mean for me I'm like people who are smarter than me and also much more holy than me, who have lived lives of obedience to Christ that are much more uh there's much more holy than me. And the and like and those are people those are those are people that I want to that I want to trust and to and to listen to.
SPEAKER_03So yeah. So we the the Nicene Creed part we're looking at right now is affirming both God's that God is uh or that Jesus is 100% God and 100%.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, well we haven't got to the human part yet.
SPEAKER_03We're we're just we're we're talking about the way in which not begotten, not made part. I think that's kind of where we we get to Well, but that's more about that's more about his divinity.
SPEAKER_08That's about his divinity. That's his divinity as opposed to. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03All right, we can save that part for because we get to the incarnation.
SPEAKER_08Because then because the incarnation comes later, next week. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But in this case, it's just there there has to be the kind of the the the there is the the flat footed claim that that when we encounter Jesus, we are encountering God. And and there is and and what this is is just driving that home that we're not encountering a lesser God or another God. We are we we are encountering God.
SPEAKER_03Um and uh why you've you've already answered in a s in a simple one you know sentence, why is Jesus's divinity necessary?
SPEAKER_08Uh because only God because only God can say because only God can save us. I mean it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a salvation thing, and it's also it's also a worship thing. This is a point that Athanasius makes, is that like well we we worship Christ and we're only supposed to worship God. So it's kind of really important that we affirm that Jesus is God. And and and that and we and we worship God as uh as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and we don't believe that those three persons are God in distinct, like that that they're distinct gods, like they're it's this it's it's one, it's one God. Um and so in saying that that um that Christ is light from light, true God from true God, is that it is that we're affirming that as the Father is true God, so also is the Son true God. Um and it's why even later when you get uh the the reference to the Holy Spirit, they're um as opposed to kind of repeating that true God from true God language, um it says that it's it's it says that the spirit together with the father and son is worshipped. Because it's the because that like that in itself is the is the affirmation of the divinity of the of the spirit, um because we only worship God and and and and and so we only worship the the the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I think it's really important for us to to recognize uh what you read earlier with the Colossians passage, um the part that says, For in him um Christ Jesus, all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell. And you know, there's another passage uh Hebrews um that that says um that the the sun is the radiance uh or I'll just begin in it. Hebrews one. In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times in various ways, but in his last days he has spoken to us by his son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom he was also made the universe. The sun is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.
SPEAKER_08Which is where the light like that's where the light from light language comes from.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And but I think going into I'm not the type of person who's like only a red letter Christian. Um I do think all of the all scripture speaks, but there are some passages of the scripture that are clearer than other passages. And uh one of the the rules of um our um reading the Bible is to use the the clear passages to interpret the less clear passages. Sure. And Jesus is the fullness of God dwell dwelling in he he communicates to us now, and these are clear ways to understand God. And so if there are less clear parts in the Bible that you go like, why does God act that way with these people in uh this passage? And then you have Jesus on the Sermon of the Mount saying, you know, love your neighbor, turn your other cheek. Um, like it's just very, very, very, very, very clear of what who Jesus is, who God is, and he's it's it's the distilled version. And it's not saying one is better than the other, I'm just saying talking about clarity sense. And and I think I I was talking to some one of our members uh earlier this week uh who who teaches at Baylor and is teaching uh uh freshman students, and she's she's shocked by the amount of like um the lack of biblical literacy.
SPEAKER_07Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03But also just like as they're reading about who Jesus is, they're going, well, but that's that's not necessarily like the Jesus I follow. You're like I don't know what other Jesus there is. It's like a cartoon moment of like, no, no, no, this is Jesus in the scriptures. Do you follow the Jesus in the scriptures, or you follow, as we said before, whatever you've made up your own personal Jesus? Yeah, whatever you've made up, and that's the thing, it's like he's the fullness of God.
SPEAKER_08And and I think just to go to John 1 18, John tells us that no one has ever seen God, but is the only Son, himself God, who's who's close to the who's in the in the bosom of the Father, close to the Father's heart, yeah, who has made him known or exegeted him. Like there is the sense in which we only know God through Christ. Like this is what and which is which is what he tells his disciples. I mean, in when um I think it's Andrew who asks him, it's like, show us the Father. He's like, if you've seen me, you've seen the Father. Like if you that's like don't you know basically, don't you know that like don't you know that by now? Yeah. Like you, like this is this is the other, and this is a broader point that may be controversial to some to some theologians, but I don't think it should be which is that um like a Christ like a like Christocentrism is actually the only way in which we need to operate. That's not as opposed to um an understanding of the Trinity and stuff like that. It's just that when it's just that the the the way that we are pointed in scripture in the scripture is always to Christ. The Old Testament is a pointing toward Christ, and the uh and the New Testament is not only an articulation of Christ, but a constant pointing back toward Christ. When we think about what the role of the Holy Spirit is, the role of the Holy Spirit is to point to Christ. Like you don't you don't lose this, is like you don't lose anything from a full, like a full-throated focus on Christ. So like I think about I think about Hebrews, Hebrews, He Hebrews 12, 2, and that and the and the command to fix our eyes on Jesus Christ, the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him uh uh endured the endured the cross, despised the shame, and now sit at the right hand uh of the Father. There is a like fixing your eyes is an is an anchoring is an anchoring of your eyes to the extent that you you don't need to look other like you don't need to look other places. Um because because in because in Christ you get the full the fullness, you get the fullness of you get the fullness of God. Um and so um so yeah, so it's it's it's that like like look at everything through the lens, uh through the lens of Christ. So even this this goes into um I mention this often, my favorite, my favorite words in the scriptures about the scriptures when when when Jesus tells the Pharisees, look like you search the scriptures because you think in them you have in them you have life, but you don't, but you but but you but but these same scriptures point to me and you don't come to me. And so and so I like I want the people of God to continually focus your eyes on Christ because also when you also when you do that, you'll necessarily live a life of repentance because when the Lord reveals to you who he who who he is and then shows you, hey, actually this is what I'm shaping you into, then you'll look at yourself and you'll be like, Oh, wait a minute. Here are all these ways in which I am not participating in the life in Christ, and the life in Christ is the only life that actually matters. So let me do that. Yeah.
Why Regular Christians Should Care
SPEAKER_03Now this whole this whole uh section of the the creed, um, you could on one level just read and go like, yep, yeah, that makes sense. But I I want us to like go into the history here of what people were fighting over and why they fought over it. That some of these things that maybe we've just uh we've assumed we've said yes, that's fine. Because everyone else has said yes, that's fine. But we're not I think I don't think we're giving you the amount of weight and time it deserves to say, like, no, what are we communicating by these things? Because if someone had a very different view of this, I think we would probably put more time into it and and more understanding. Um, another creed that is uh uh when did it come about? The the Nicene Creed. Uh not the Nicene, the the uh uh Athanasius Creed.
SPEAKER_08Oh, the Ashena it it's it's disputed in uh Okay, okay. So it's not actually done by Athanasius.
SPEAKER_03No, it's not actually done by Athanasius. Um but uh this is a I this is a one that I I I I absolutely love, but also hate to do on a Sunday morning. Because it's it's kind of repetitive, but it's also beautiful in that repetition. But it says like part of it, I'll I'll just read some of it, where it says that we worship one God in Trinity and the Trinity in unity, neither blending their persons nor dividing their essence. For the person of the Father is a distinct person, the person of the Son is another, and that of the Holy Spirit is still another. But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty co-eternal. What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has. The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, the Holy Spirit is uncreated. The Father is immeasurable, the Son is immeasurable, the Holy Spirit is immeasurable. The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal, the Holy Spirit is eternal. You get the repetition part, right? Um, and these three are three eternal beings, uh, there's not there is but one eternal, not three eternal beings, but there's but one eternal being. I saw your head tilt. Uh so too. There are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings, there is but one uncreated immeasurable being, right? This is the the this is the creed. It's it's kind of spelling it out in um exacting minute detail how distinct the three are, but also how unified the three are. It's it's beautiful um uh in one in one level. And I think that's the the weight that this conversation has. We ought to be able to to emulate that weight uh in our reverence for this topic. But I just don't I don't know if we I think I think maybe we don't give it that is one because of the con you know the the our the the culture we live in now is not necessarily as as hotly debated. But I just don't I also wonder if Christians even wonder why that any of this matters.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Like it's like, oh that's cool theological uh debate. Interesting. Uh but I'll just tell you I don't know I don't know how I don't know how it all works. I just know I believe in Jesus. Um and that I think that's really as far as the conversation goes.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, it's it's funny, especially because during this period, uh a number of the Cappadocian fathers, I think this is actually in a it's either a Nissa quote or it might be a Nazienzen quote auto thing about it, but they're but they're talking about the period around um because you know, these are contemporaries of the of the of these councils, and they're talking about how how how around that time like you you would walk down the street and just like hear people in the street arguing about this, like like arguing about this stuff. It's like is the what's the what is the son begotten or begotten or created? But this is like these are like conversations that you would hear in the grocery store, basically. Um and so which is holding I love it. Has that ever happened to H E B I love it so much? Um But this but this also goes back to but this also goes back to what we to what we were talking about in our in our terrible tweet tweet section.
The Creeds Shape Real Discipleship
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_08Which is this like what Christians think is important and what Christians think discipleship is about. So like is the goal, because if I if I frame um you know voting as a category of apostasy or whatever, then I will be able to look at myself voting in a particular way, and I can think, oh great, here is a category of Christ-likeness. And I can I'm just like, do like that it that's such a small, that's such a small picture of what it is that God has actually prepared us for. And one of the things that the that the that that the creeds kind of continually emphasize and why they defend um particular understandings, especially of Christ, is because what they're also defending is a picture of what it is that Christ is shaping us, is shaping us into. Um and and and they're really insistent on those things because their picture of what it is that Christ is shaping us into is is is huge. And they're like, only God can do this. And we can and we've and we've but we've also seen the way that God like works this in uh in people's lives. And so, so like, so that's the vision, like that's the vision that I also want us to have to. This is the vision that I'm trying to write in this in this book that I'm writing right now, uh, which won't come out until spring 2028. So sorry about that. But but like but but that vision is so much bigger than political power or wealth or whatever. Like God is inviting you to like God is when I s when when you when when when when when I talk about even even Christ-likeness, like people can think about that as a relatively small thing. What I mean is that God is making you, God is making you like God. Like that's what that's what he's making. When I say Christ, when I refer to Christlikeness, like that's what I'm referring to. Because when I say Christ, I'm saying Christ according to the creeds. Yeah. True light from light, true God from true God. The Lord, the Lord actually wants to make you like that. Like that, that's that's what the Christian hope, that's what the Christian hope is. Yeah. Um, and so and when that's when that becomes your perspective, just a lot of things, you know, just a lot of things become less important.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I mean, like to me, like thinking about like why is this so important? Why should ordinary Christians care about this? I think because this teaches us that we can trust Jesus is revealing God to us in its in God's fullness, uh, because Jesus is truly God. Uh we don't have to wonder whether we understand this or get in the distorted view, Jesus is the the complete picture of the Father.
SPEAKER_08The whole shebang.
SPEAKER_03And our salvation is wrapped up in in in in who he is. And so we we don't get to remake Jesus into our own image. We don't your own personal Jesus. I know no one goes out and says we're gonna do that, but we we consistently see it every single day in our culture, in our politics, in us personally, of trying to reinvent Jesus. And I think what this creed does is it it gives us a gravity, uh a center of the universe, like the sun, that just holds everything else in place where you can say, I might disagree on this part of the the our theology on this, but this here is never gonna change, and we belong to this Jesus. And so I think it's just it's so important that I'm I'm glad we're spending the time on it, um, and we don't have our own personal Jesus.
SPEAKER_08And granted, I mean we're gonna get uh soon we're gonna get into the conflict that that um that ends up one of the conflicts that separates the East and the West, but this is but this is one of this is one of these ecumenical creeds that every that every historic Christian communion agrees agrees on. Um and that's and that in itself is a significant is a significant fact too.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
Listener Email Plug And Closing
SPEAKER_03Well, y'all, I hope you've enjoyed the episode. Um hope you've uh been enjoying this series going through the Nicene Creed. Um hopefully it's been spurring you on in your own uh doctrine, your own uh commitment and solidifying some things that maybe there's been some uh you know, like we talked about this this podcast of theology and pieces. Maybe you've been disentangling in uh your your theology, but we're hoping we're building it back bit by bit, piece by piece. Um we've been on the schedule of every other week, um, and then sometimes we mess up uh with business and life. Um last week I did a uh uh a conference uh around immigration. I also did a podcast on another one that I'm gonna re-release on this one uh next week on a debate on immigration. Uh so look forward to that. Um send in your mail. I think we got one uh we'll we'll hit next time. Uh but hello at theologypieces.com. We'd love to hear from you, love to chat what you guys are chatting about, and talk more and more about Jesus. Alright, y'all, we'll see you guys in two weeks.
SPEAKER_06Take care, it's it's the line of that. And there's a war within its voice.
SPEAKER_01Eighteen days you're in that coma youth.